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Length of CV

 
forum comment
#0 Length of CV
 
Lawyer
11.10.9 00:00
 
Hi all,Hoping for the benefit of your experience of the consulting industry in the UK.Is it absolutely essential that one's CV should be no longer than one page in length? I am a lawyer looking to make the transition to consulting and am hearing conflicting views on this.Will consulting firms in the UK (think MBB) react badly to (say) a two page CV or is the one page obsession largely a US beast?Many thanks for your help in advance.
 
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#0 RE: Length of CV
 
seevy
11.10.9 00:00
 
The standard length which most recruiters, agents, and employers recommend is 2 pages. I find it challenging enough condensing all my years of experience into two pages, let alone one.
 
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#0 RE: RE: Length of CV
 
jj
11.10.9 00:00
 
Used to be 2 pages maximum but these days there are so many applicants that the CV does not get printed out.The implications are: 1) Put the most important stuff at the top e.g. a summary of your selling points 2) Dont spend any time getting it to exactly fit 2 pages.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
stargazer
11.10.9 00:00
 
I have always been using a 3 page CV and have had no problems, got job offers and interviews.Anyone had problems with 3 pg CV ?
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Evil Consultant
12.10.9 00:00
 
In my experience - One page good. Two pages OK. Three pages bad.The purpose of a CV is not to get you the job, bizarre as that may sound. It is there to get you to first interview. You can do that much more effectively by highlighting your best achievements in each role.EC
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: Length of CV
 
Mars A Day
12.10.9 00:00
 
The length of CV which is acceptable is generally dictated by your level of experience but by focusing on length of CV (somewhat outdated as they are all on email these days anyway) you miss the main point - how your CV is constructed.It has been said elsewhere on this forum but I'll reiterate..1. Personal summary: if you must use one make it relevant and avoid unsubsantiated cliches. No telling us you are dynamic etc. If you have 20 years experience dont say so in your profile - it will have a negative impression. Instead focus on key words and points of relevance for 'scan value'.2. Each role should be broken down into achievements/value creation/value addition not responsibilities. 3. If you have more than about 5 years experience put your education at the bottom of your CV, unless you have completed an MBA either a) from a top bs and it's important this is flagged up early or b) you recently completed it4. No age/date of birth. And no details of your marital status, dependents etc.5. In your interests only put things on which demonstrate something useful. Dont waste space telling us you like to read, like movies, are interested in current affairs etc. If you have ridden the Dakar rally, run the London marathon, or built a village in Timbuktu then mention it.If you keep to a concise, relevant CV you should be able to get it into 2 - 3 pages. Best way to write a CV is get everything down in chronological order, then go back and edit, then gop back and edit again. Use action words, write in the active voice, and dont waste words - think of it like a japanese poem.
 
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#0 RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Mr Cool
12.10.9 00:00
 
Mars a Day – Good analogy, the Japanese poem. I have recently been sending out my CV in the form of Elizabethan sonnets. Do you think this is likely to reduce my chances of getting interesting positions? I did try limericks, which had the benefit of being short, but seemed to attract some very crude (but entertaining) rejection letters.
 
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#0 RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Lawyer
12.10.9 00:00
 
Thanks all - very helpful perspectives.Mars - your points are well made re construction and I will definitely take them on board. I hope my focus on length is not reflective of a cookie-cutter approach.I guess what I am grappling with is the level of detail to include on my achievements. I don't want to lose the reviewer in a sea of text, but at the same time I think my one page CV would leave them a little unsure of my substance.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Mars A Day
12.10.9 00:00
 
Lawyer abandon the concept that a CV should be 1 or 2 pages long. If a CV is strong enough to carry 4 pages it will be read, a 1 page CV full of fluff will still go straight in the shredder. In my view a 1 page CV is very rarely any use unless you are very junior. After about 2 years experience from graduation you will need a 2 page CV, and for 5+ years experience 3 - 4 pages.Structure each role by achievement: what the problem/situation was, what you did, and the outcome. If you can quantify the outcome in financial terms or performance improved etc so much the better.
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Anon
12.10.9 00:00
 
Mars, how would you structure a CV for a consultant that has worked on say 100+ projects (i.e. lots of small projects rather than 5 or 6 whopping great ones with big major accomplishments)?
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Mars A Day
14.10.9 00:00
 
Anon I would suggest either:1. Try to 'categorise' your projects perhaps by industry or type of engagement (strategy, performance improvement etc) and mention the size range, duration and number of projects in a positive manner such as describing them as quick hit, high impact etc - like a Kaizen event I guess.Or 2. List most of them (all of them?) in a separate 'projects' section after the main body of your CV.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
anon
14.10.9 00:00
 
Hi mars, one of the problems I have is that no one project has resulted in a "major" result. I'm mostly carrying out small reviews that recommend tweaks to things here and there (change this IT system, review that process, etc), rather than something huge like "open a new factory in germany". Each review is usually only a few days long spread over a month or two. I tried categorising by type of work, but ended up with about 11 totally different categories. If I listed every single project with a sentence or two, it would go on for (no kidding) about 10 pages minimum. Yet there is no way of easily categorising them into 'impressive' vs 'not impressive' - they're all about the same.basically my CV is a total generalist CV with no obvious single major achievements that i can summarise in a quick soundbite. I've done lots of good work, but summarising it is proving very difficult. it's not even like i've been part of a bigger team where i can say "worked on the BT team to implement a £500,000,000 IT system" or whatever).any more advice appreciated....
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Anonimator
15.10.9 00:00
 
There are dozens of recruitment consultants that sniff around this forum.Why don't they give us the benefit of their experience ?
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
anon
15.10.9 00:00
 
yeah, come on, I need some advice here!!!! help us to help you!! thank you
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: Length of CV
 
Luke Marshall
15.10.9 00:00
 
What is a CV? Not such a stupid question. CVs are called many things (like résumé in America) but what ever it is called (and you do not have to write - and in fact should not write - "curriculum vitae" on it any more than you write "letter" on the top of your letters) there are a few very simple rules that you ignore at your peril. A CV does one thing, and one thing only. It gets you an interview for a job. A CV is not a potted biography. It is not a record of every thing you have ever done. Think of it as a piece of highly-targeted direct mail. Direct to the one person who is going to put you on a short list. What should my CV contain? Only things that are germane for the job for which you are applying. You should produce a unique CV for every job for which you apply. A single general, one-size-fits-all CV will not do. That may sound like a lot of work, but an hours work to get a £75k+ return is not bad work. How long will a hiring manager look at my CV? Probably between 30 seconds and a minute. What that means is you must have maximum impact and present information - not opinions, not puff - in the most succinct, direct and easily digestible manner. The Golden rule of CVs If you pay no attention to anything else then remember this. Your CV should be no longer than 2-3 pages. Less is more. Two is much better than three unless you are a very senior director/CEO when it is just about acceptable to go to a third page. There are almost NO circumstances under which a CV should be longer than three pages. Several hundred CVs arrive at LMA Executive Search every week. Most of them contain information that is unnecessary, clutters up your CV and, for those who have paid attention to the two-page rule, has meant they have not included other, more important information. All directors/hiring managers/recruitment consultants have horror stories of the six, nine, ten, even 24 page CVs. Candidates with 5 page CVs will remain candidates for a long time. What is a hiring manager looking for? He or she will have a clear idea in their own head of the background and skills they are looking for. The first thing they will look at is the last employer you worked for and what job you were doing. If that experience is relevant, they will look deeper at your CV at what other experience you have. If the information is presented in a clear, immediately accessible way, you stand a much better chance of being selected for interview. If the information is buried deep in several pages of closely typed, poorly laid-out, badly spelt text, then no one is going to bother. How do I organise my CV ? There are two main types of CV. Time-based CV The traditional, and for most people, preferred layout. Arrange your career history with your current/most recent job first and work back. Make the job title and your employer clear. If your job title does not really explain what you did, then expand on it to provide enough detail. Jobs held more than 15 years ago should be very briefly dealt with. Skills-based CV Organised around your skills. May be more appropriate for some one who has moved jobs a lot or has significant experience gleaned from other areas, such as voluntary work. Also useful for candidates contemplating a major career switch so that previous experience needs to be put in context to make it relevant. Members of the Armed Forces may find it relevant. Commanding an aircraft carrier or drawing up plans to invade Iraq may need some interpretation for the civilian world. Not a popular format with recruiters. What to put in? Facts. And only facts. Whatever format you adopt, stick to the facts. Tell the consultant what you did, what your achievements were and provide the evidence for it. Avoid flannel. Use bullet points. Don't say you are a "world class leader" say "Head of 15-strong team in three locations worldwide. Implemented new training scheme that increased turnover by 35% in three years." Do not be tempted to lie. If you are found out, you can be dismissed, and it is unlikely that the recruitment consultant will deal with you again. There is no need, for example, to include details of exams you took, but failed. Things you can safely leave out . The following list is not definitive. And don't forget, this kind of information can be presented later in the application process if you make it to the interview list: - Marital status - Number/ages/names of children - Details of your primary school - Your O/GCSE level subjects and grades- Almost certainly your A level grades unless you a very recent graduate - Any exams/qualifications you failed Place of birth Nationality Hobbies and interests. If you have represented your country in the Olympics, have written a best-selling book, or hold the record for the largest stack of 2p pieces balanced on your nose while uni-cycling then you may include them. If your interests are gardening, DIY and golf, as most people's are, then leave it off. What should my CV look like? Above, we looked at the cardinal rule of CVs. Your CV should be no longer than 2-3 pages. Two is better than three. Unless you are a retired President of the United States, a former Secretary General of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or the Director General of the BBC, there is no excuse for not getting it onto two sides. Why the obsession with two sides? Two reasons: It shows you understand what a CV is for, and can order your thoughts and structure them in such a way as to convey the image you wish and NO director/hiring manager/recruitment consultant has the time to wade through pages after page of your personal details. They want the facts and just the facts. Structure: Put the information the hiring manager needs first. That means your name and your employment history starting with your most recent position. Education and all the other information goes at the end. Until you have been selected for interview, your address is not needed. Layout For most people, unless you are going after a position in a creative industry, stick to a very simple, clear and straight forward design. Always keep in mind that your CV is going to be scanned. It will be a very key discipline to keeping it clear and readable, and should discourage you from the excesses of Microsoft Word's layout tools. Typeface Chose a clear, straight forward font. On the PC, Arial and Times New Roman are a good choice. You can use both — perhaps using Arial as your headline font, and Verdana as the body text. Do not use more than two font families in a document — although with careful use you can make use of Arial Black and Arial Condensed. Type size Fonts should never be used at less than 10pt - a typical broadsheet newspaper uses 10pt type - anything less than that and first the OCR will not pick it up, and secondly you are not going to make the person reading it terribly happy. Type styles Although there is no problem in using bold fonts, be sparing in the use of italic. OCR software can be fooled by italics. Avoid underlining for the same reason, and under no circumstances use black - or indeed any other colour - boxes with white text in them. The OCR will almost certainly fail to read the text. The same goes for shadow, outline and any other of those bizarre typestyles that Word allows you to use. That typographic disaster zone "Word Art" — which allows you to make you name appear to be shaped like a ball — is best left to publishers of the village newsletter and the corporate sport and social club, where it is much admired. White space Allow your text some space to breathe. Do not be tempted to set 1cm margins on the basis you can get more on the page. It will look cramped and unprofessional. Consistency Devise a style sheet and stick to it. Think about the hierarchy of headings: Profile, if you have to have one, career and achievements, education, other information; then how are you going to present your job titles (dates, job title, company name). This is where the use of different fonts can help. Use differing weights and font sizes to help the reader pick out the key information. Perhaps 14 point Arial for the main sections headings, then 12 point Arial bold for the second level headings, with 10 point Verdana for the main body text. Language Use bullet points. Keep sentences short, active not passive verbs, stick to facts, not opinions. Use standard job titles, not company specific ones. This will increase your chances of your CV being found in a key word search. Other points: If you work on the basis that a recruitment consultant may scan 200 CVs in a day, and yours is the 197th consider what would that person want to see. Something simple, easy to read, clear, which shows a clarity of thought and the ability to present the most salient facts concisely. Layout, which will be covered in another article, is very important. Make your statement easy to read, in a simple, clear font (Times Roman or Arial or Verdana are good solid fonts that scan well) at a reasonable size (nothing less than 10 point, nothing more than 12pt). No shading, no boxes. Short sentences with good use of white space. Covering letter Many applicants idea of a covering email is, if they have even thought that far, to cite the job reference and a single line along the lines "Here is my CV". And that is that. This is a mistake. What should a covering letter do? Help you to stand out from the crowd. How? Consider that your application, especially in these difficult days, is very likely to be one of possibly hundreds of applicants. Just for a moment put yourself in the recruiter's shoes. He or she knows what they are looking for. They have a pile of al hundred CVs to wade through. It is getting on for 7pm, the time spent on each CV has dropped from about two minutes to under a minute. A CV comes with a letter, a short letter, succinctly highlighting the applicant's relevant details and expanding on some of the information in the attached CV. The letter explains why they are the right person for the job. It is all there, in a few, tight paragraphs. It can make the difference between getting "Please can you contact us to arrange an interview...." letter and getting the "thank you for your recent application, however...." letter. What should it contain? An opening paragraph that explains why you are writing. Use it to get across your key message. What you have to offer them. This is the hard sell. You have to sell your proposition in just a couple of paragraphs. It is not about repeating your CV but about explaining your unique proposition. What you do, who you do it for, how long you have been doing it. Anything on your CV that might need explaining. There is no stigma to being made redundant, but you might need to explain a long period, particularly if you have been undertaking freelance work. You might want to avoid salary details on your CV, in which case put them on the covering letter. It might also be worth mentioning your notice details. Each covering letter, like the CV it goes with, is unique to that application. It has to be. How could you produce an effective sell if it is not tailored to the audience. A one-size-fits-all covering letter has as much style as a one-size-fits-all coat. Go through the advertisement or specification with a red pen, and underline the skills and experience they are looking for. Sell yourself in response to these, highlighting the features that show you are right for the job. Style As with everything to do with CVs, it needs to be brief and to the point. Factual - not opinion. Make sure everything you say is backed up by your CV. Avoid any quasi-management waffle. Nobody ever "leveraged their core competencies." EVER. Tone In a way think of your covering letter almost as a press release, in as much as it has to cover the same ground. It needs to answer the same questions: who, why, what, where, when and how. Don't, however, be tempted to go to far and turn the ending into some over-the-top paean of self-indulgent praise. Stick to the facts. I trust this helps……happy hunting !!! Luke MarshallLMA Executive Search http://www.linkedin.com/in/lukemarshall
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: Length of CV- the longest ever post on this forum
 
sm
15.10.9 00:00
 
Wow. Must have been up all night typing that one in this little box...
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: Length of CV
 
recruiter too
15.10.9 00:00
 
eri don't think this forum is for people to cut and paste a load of pre prepared stuff: I’ve no idea if any good as I haven’t time to read it. Any chance of deleting it Bryan?Ref the point re recruiters I always assumed MaD was a recruiter and he seemed to be in fine form and talking sense (on this occasion) so no need to add to it but as you've asked....1 is sometimes OK and yes MBBB are obsessed by them but generally speaking 2-4 pages is fine and occasionally more. Most CV advice is NOT aimed at consultants, who need to give examples of client projects which obviously take up a lot of space.
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Mars A Day
16.10.9 00:00
 
I confess I have a pet hate: covering letters. What a pointless invention. Assume that you have 30 second to 1 minute in scan value to impress a hiring manager or recruiter (more on this in a moment) - do you want that 30 - 60 seconds focused on your actual CV, or some letter which at best reiterates your well crafted CV and at worst simply overlays it with superlatives? I am suspicious however of this notion - engendered I suspect my volume merchants in recruitment - that you actualy only really get 30 seconds for your CV to impress. What nonsense. Does anyone on this forum really accept that an organisation will risk losing a potentially critical hire because they couldnt spend the time to read a CV properly? The idea that they are all piled up on some poor line manager's desk while he drowns in CVs is a fantasy, although an amusing one. Reality is that a CV will go through several layers of close scrutiny. 30 MINUTES to 1 HOUR is actually closer to the total time spent looking at your CV. The danger of the kind of advice Luke is handing out is that this creates a cookie cutter approach to CV creation, and which in turn creates a cookie cutter approach to how CVs are reviewed. No client I have EVER worked with has insisted a CV be pared down to 2 pages even where they are substantially longer. What MCs hate more than anything - anything at all - is unexplained gaps. Know your audience - you are generally bright, analytical types, used to working with detail, and as such this is what MC firms themselves look for: density, preferably aligned to specific delivered wins with a quantified outcome.
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
anon
17.10.9 00:00
 
isn't an unexplained gap self-explanatory in this day and age? the idea that somebody gets made redundant on friday and is back in a full time job the following monday is just unrealistic and surely people know this?
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
CPW
17.10.9 00:00
 
An employment gap is reasonable, perhaps. Unexplained, though? No - the explanation should be contained either in the CV or covering letter. Otherwise, it is reasonable for the reader to assume the worst (prison, dismissal rather than redundancy, etc.)
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
jj
18.10.9 00:00
 
Come on. 30 seconds is probably understating it but who on earth is going to spend an hour poring over every single cv?The recruiters I have spoken to are getting say 200 CVs for a role. 150 of those can be eliminated in less than 30 seconds. 50 get say 2 minutes. And the 12 invited for interview maybe 15 minutes each.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Mars A Day
19.10.9 00:00
 
I've said 30 mins to 1 hour in total for the review of a CV, by which I mean everyone who looks and reviews it, including the recruitment agent if involved, HR and one or more line managers. Internal HR and line managers will spend more time on your CV than a recruiter as the consequences of an incorrect hire ultimately lay with them.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Cynic
19.10.9 00:00
 
I agree with Mars.In my experience, it sort of goes like this:1. CV lands on desk. Very fast initial scan by reader. If utter rubbish or totally misses the point, gets put into bin (metaphorically speaking) in under 10 seconds.2. If not utter rubbish, gets read in a little more detail. Decision of whether CV makes it to the long-list happens within 2 minutes.3. CVs get long-listed and sorted. Those at the top of the list get around 10-15 minutes each (mainly in the form of being directly compared with other CVs).4. Other people look at the list and CVs and check the list. Sam process, but takes around 10% of the time.5. Candidates short-listed. CVs for these ones are reviewed in great detail. Questions prepared for each candidate. Can take 30mins-1 hour per candidate once you factor in everyone's time.
 
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forum comment
#0 RE: Length of CV
 
Jimmie Daniels
16.09.10 00:00
 
A lot of recruitment agencies and websites recommend a 2 page CV. One recruiter recommended to me that if it's a technical CV, they like to see 3 pages; as employers for technical staff want detail on the types of technologies the candidate has experience with, which isn't always possible with 2 pages.From my point of view when I recruit for staff, I think 1 page doesn't give enough information and makes it look like you either have no experience, or qualifications. 2 Pages is perfect, 3 pages at a push, but no more otherwise I get bored of reading and put it in the "no" pile.Jimmiewww.itbodies.co.uk
 
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#0 RE: RE: Length of CV
 
anon
16.09.10 00:00
 
I review CVs daily (I am an internal recruiter - not agency)and I have to say that 3 pages is enough. Personal statement + key skills at top and then most recent experience at the top going backwards. The more simple the CV the better, no logos or side margins full of info - keep it neat and simple making sure it is relevant to the job description.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: Length of CV
 
Shoe Polisher
16.09.10 00:00
 
I'm a recruiter at exec level. I like to see a well considered, structured CV which can be easily achieved in two/three pages. One page is american-style and to me reeks of arrogance or wannabe-somewhere-else. When in Rome....I think Mars mentioned gaps. CV suicide is yawns in space and time.Make it tell a story that you would believe.
 
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