Well team, I'm looking for some advise.I'm currently a 25 year old doctor, who will have completed 2 years work as a doctor in august. I'm looking at getting out of medicine (i've had plenty of debates on the why, "what are you thinking?" etc, thats not why i'm writing, my reasons are multi dimesional, being: a complete loss of direction in my career, poor prospects in current medical climate, lifestyle) as i believe that i'm suited to consulting having the generic skills that a consultant would need i.e. problem solving mind, logic, communication skills etc. and that its something i would enjoy and could spend a decent period of my life doing.My questions are these:-What level should I apply for at the big 4? One friend has made the move to BCG as junior consultant, however he had 4 years as a doctor, so am i too juinor to go in at that level. Is graduate an option? any other ideas?- How to structure my CV? indeed what to put on. Its written, but still not finalised. Spoken to lots of different people, but coming from my background very difficult as you cant quantify how much you've done as in business, i.e. i increased profits by 5%, doesnt work like that when your dealing with patients!-When is a good time to send off your CV? By now i know graduate recruiting is in full swing, but dates are closed, is this even relevant?Any help would be much appreciated, be it generic or specific,CheersDoctor

What the hell are you thinking?

Aim for MBB first.http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_14/b3623022.htm

My questions are these:-What level should I apply for at the big 4?<b> Not too sure if you mean big 4 strategy firms (mbbb) or big4 accounting/service firms. In any case, don&apos;t apply for big4 accounting/service firms... most of their work is very tactical and IT based and not as engaging as the strategy work you would do at mbbb. If you indeed meant mbbb, you could target an experienced first band level or second band of consulting given your experience (experienced entry level analyst to consultant)</b>One friend has made the move to BCG as junior consultant, however he had 4 years as a doctor, so am i too juinor to go in at that level. Is graduate an option? any other ideas?<b>Although most consulting firms do most of their recruiting after graduation or after mba, some consulting firms will recruit exceptional experienced hires. This level is typically somewhere between experienced analyst and consultant. If you can avoid coming in at the analyst level... all the better as analyst are targeted at fresh out of school employees and do alot of grunt work (power point formatting, excel work, etc) </b>- How to structure my CV? indeed what to put on. Its written, but still not finalised. Spoken to lots of different people, but coming from my background very difficult as you cant quantify how much you&apos;ve done as in business, i.e. i increased profits by 5%, doesnt work like that when your dealing with patients!<b> Look at what consulting firms are looking for and tailor your resume towards that. To be an effective consultant you need to have excellent analytical, prolbem solving, communication and client facing skills. Highlight these.</b>-When is a good time to send off your CV? By now i know graduate recruiting is in full swing, but dates are closed, is this even relevant? <b> I wouldn&apos;t think graduate recruiting would apply to you... you would most likely come in as an experienced hire with few years of experience under their belt and they recruit year round on an as needed basis, so the earlier the better. </b>

wes and doc thanks for your constructive comments, it&apos;s just what I wanted to hear. More of the same please! That was the kind of lines I was going down wes, aiming for mckinsey, bain, bcg etc guess it&apos;s just a matter of sending off the cv and see what happens! Merry Christmas and thanks once again,

My view on your questions:Some firms, eg McKinsey, bring doctors and PhDs at post-MBA level, so theoretically you could enter at that point. However, with just two years of experience, I would be very surprised (actually astonished) to see that happen - it is just not really feasible to expect a 25 year old with no business experience and very limited medical experience to work at that level. Therefore, at the moment I think the two options are :1) They bring you in at entry level - but you have just missed the whole recruiting cycle. 2)They bring you in at a slightly higher level, but unless they have a specific need for a doctor, why should they do that in the current environment? In any case HR will bring you in at the appropriate level. I think getting in will be the bigger problem than the level of entry right now.Wrt your CV, I would get some people working in consulting to look at it and advise you. Most medical CVs I see are totally inappropriate to consulting and wouldn&apos;t get through the HR screen so you really need to work on this. You have about one A4 page to highlight academic excellence, rapid career progression, impact at work and in the rest of your life, teamwork and leadership, and also sound interesting at the same time. It will be difficult with just two years - up to you to work out how to do it. If you can&apos;t then you won&apos;t get through the CV screen as plenty of others can.In terms of timing, I am afraid you couldn&apos;t really pick a worse time. I know for a fact that a few doctors have recently joined consulting firms in London and many more have applied unsuccessfully. There is only a finite need for doctors, and if firms have enough it doesn&apos;t really matter how good you are, you won&apos;t get through. We are also in the biggest economic downturn for decades and people are being laid off rather than hired. Having said that, if you don&apos;t apply then your chances are 0%.Sorry this post is rather negative, but that is how I am seeing things right now. In order to add something constructive I would suggest:Apply as soon as you feel you are ready, as you have nothing to lose from doing soHave plans B and C to fallback on if it doesn&apos;t work out (and to be honest that is the most likely outcome right now).So in summary, if I was in your shoes:Plan A - apply to everyone, but don&apos;t have too high an expectation of anything coming from it.Plans B - Apply for medical advisor roles in big pharma (when you have another year of clinical medicine under your belt, and preferably an exam). This will add more relevant business experience to your CV that looking down ears and writing TTOs won&apos;t.Planc C - MBA after another couple of years in medicine. Only go to full-time programmes in top schools. This will demonstrate the commitment that firms want to see, and also provide you with some business knowledge/skills and a network.I am afraid my answer is rather more negative than the previous posters, but that is the way I see things now. As I said, you have no chance if you don&apos;t apply, but I do also think you will stand a much better chance with more experience or a few more strings to your bow alongside just two years of medicine (ie MRCS, pharma experience, MBA etc etc). Bear in mind that, at the moment, employing you is a big risk for firms that are desperately trying to minimise risk.Good luck with it

Thankyou D,I appreciate your frankness, and i do agree timing is an issue, as is my experience. Think i will have to go for it, but as you said, buffer myself with a stronger plan B-Z!In saying that, from what i&apos;ve been reading, healthcare consulting is one of the fastest, if not the fastest areas of growth, you only have to look at recriutment agency pages to see plenty of adds for vacancies. Bearing in mind i have my eyes set on a top-flight strategy firm, do you think there is merit in filling a post in a niche healthcare consulting firm (all be it a very junior level) in the hope that this would give me stronger experience and make me a better candidate, or is this just even more likely to make me get "glossed over" as i&apos;ve missed the boat, and therefore unlikely to get a role at the big 4. Granted its all speculation, but thoughts and opinions would be very much appreciated!

Hi Dr Simply,You might want to look at the following firms, some of which I know currently have vacancies or are advertising:IMS Health- Places in there SDG Life-Sciences group and also in HEOR consulting arena. Note the latter is probably abroadSg2 International: Healthcare intelligence firm, usually recruit analystsPA Consulting: Health and Life Sciences Practice has some spaces at the junior levelsWoodMackenzie: Has an HLS practice, not sure if there after people thoughNewchurch:- Don’t know much about them but they are on Top-Consultant.com. Think they do NHS workHedra:-Again mainly public sector consultingPutnam Associates:- Pharma strategy firmCampbell Alliance:-Again Pharma strategy firmYou can also try MBB and the big four but times are tough at moment for some of these firms. I suggest searching previous threads for other firm names. Hope this helpsDeticacaca

Thanks Deticacaca, lots more food for thought, cheers.

Hi Doc. I think targeting healthcare consulting would be wise, there is a lot of growth in the sector at the moment and they are more likely to be looking for people with your experience. I work for a boutique strategy firm in pharma and we just hired a practising clinician (4 yrs experience I think) at consultant level. You would probably be looking at senior analyst or associate consultant. I&apos;m not from a medical background but I find the work really interesting, career progression is rapid (at least in my company) and it would probably be a good stepping stone to MBB or similar after a couple of years

I don&apos;t think there is a simple yes/no answer as to whether joining a boutique firm is the way to go. There are pros and cons to it I guess, but certainly no rules - what works for one may not work for another.Certainly the work would be more relevant to subsequently moving on to a "strat house", but conversely some firms may not like it - they may arguably prefer you will more medical experience and exams to give you more credibility with clients, as opposed to consulting experience in a firm that is relatively unknown. They will of course teach you what you need to do the job so the term "experienced hire" here probably means clinical experience rather than consulting experience at the junior levels.An alternative would be the pharma industry, which would expose you to the drug development process, regulations, licensing deals etc etc, which would be very very relevant.Whatever path you choose will turn out ok eventually. Some may close certain doors, but others will open at the same time so I wouldn&apos;t worry about it too much. What I would say is to be sure to maximise your achievements at each step before you move on- ie don&apos;t leave medicine too soon, and ideally get an exam to highlight career progression. Join the best firm you can get into, go to the best business school you can get into etc etc. As you build your CV, it will be obvious to those reading it whether you have really achieved at each stage or didn&apos;t quite do as well as you might have done (and others did)

M - great to hear from someone in the business always useful, and D - good solid general advise, very apt, thanks.As it seems the theme seems to run "different strokes for different folks" and you need to manipulate yourself into the stongest position you can manage with what you&apos;ve got and give it a shot! Then whatever the fall out, be it good or bad, its all experience, and the good old cliche "where a door closes a window opens!"Thanks for all posts, any further advice is always welcome, a i&apos;ll have to keep you posted!CheersP.s. Anyone know any good case study books to go over? P.p.s Are all non MBA interviewee&apos;s at MBBB getting written tests similar(ish) to GMAT. Reading websites its mentioned here and there especially McKinsey, but seems pretty random with who and where.Thanks again

Hi,I was in exactly your position this time last year, but with three years of post-qualification medicine under my belt, and am now happily working at a strategy firm, having come in at entry level.I agree with most of what&apos;s been said, especially that your timing is unfortunate. I found the process of applying and interviewing helpful in shaping my career aspirations and would advise applying across the board, ie top firms, specialist healthcare places, etc, if only to guide future applications, being careful not to burn bridges in medicine as a temporary fall back if unsuccessful.Happy to discuss further by email: GMC 6104350, initialssurname@theusualaddressGood luck

Hi x-doctor, thanks for your opinion. Currently applying across board. Would be very keen on getting a little more info off you, if thats possible, I&apos;ve got your name, though "the usual adress", would that be your nhs, trust or organisation(i.e. .org, or .net)?How easy did you find it breaking in? Equally how did you go about preparing for case studies, appart from the obvious do plenty!Any help would be great.Thanks

Hello Timmy