Hi, I have worked on different projects.Recently, I have found out that my former project manager has taken credit for my work, while backstabbing me for our managers and even clients.What to do?

Naturally give him/her a slap but before doing so it would be worth going to see a top dog that you are friendly with and explaining the whole situation and allow them to sort it out - don't bottle it up and do nothing

I'm going to (slightly) hi-jack this thread in the same vein (sorry anon). I know the response but need to hear it from someone else:Since I joined my current firm (which I won't state who they are - yet) I have had business won by me stolen from me with the blessing of management, been bombarded with abuse in person, via the phone and on email, had every grievance ignored and either told not interested or to fxxx off with it. Been here 3 years and health has never been worse. Demotivated but have excellent client and candidate relationships, respected by my peers and colleagues but apparently despised by management. What should I do?

Mars, I have been in the same situation.So far I've just mentally removed myself from it. I've tried to say to myself "I don't really care if they don't like me. I'm here to make some money and that's as far as it goes". But now even the money is pretty terrible. My goal is to try and live within my means and reduce my mortgage so that I am no longer beholden to these people. But, that will take a long time and may not even be possible. If I was a customer of any company being treated this way, I wouldn't even think twice about ditching the company and moving on. But I have a huge investment in this company - not emotionally, but in terms of all the work and effort I've put in and having built up a routine. It's easy to think "just move on" but in reality it's never that easy. And sometimes things can be good for weeks on end. I sometimes wonder whether moving to a different company will just be the same sh1t, different people.

Oops - change "emotionally" to "financially"

I think half my problem is that I'd rather stick with a bad situation that's bad but just about bearable, than to risk moving to something that could be worse and going through the whole cycle of building up everything again from scratch (proving yourself, getting to know what's what, etc).

thanks --- ; if you are good then you can move elsewhere and win new business yes? good recruiters can find business in a tight market like this.

mars - there are some things that are more important than the money - you mention your health is low, as is your motivation. move on, join another firm that really appreciate you and the value you can add to them. Every hour you are convincing people to move on for career changes, or to realise their ambition, or to develop their reputation elsewhere - it seems like it is now time for you to do the same.Unless of course this is simply Monday morning blues.

Thanks Cassius, its not monday blues unfortunately, and you are quite right - that is precisely what I need to do (just needed a sounding board so thought I would ask you guys out there).

Hi mars, for info I'm a consultant (a low paid one) but the situation is the same.I have found it helpful when colleagues try to steal credit for things by simply copying everybody in on emails. That way, even if they don't admit it, everyone knows what my contribution was.As regards disrespectful senior colleagues, I've tried to brush off their comments, thinking to myself "it's not me, it's them". I've said to myself in the past "I'll see how things are in 3 months time and if its still bad then I'll go", then 3 months rolls around and I think to myself "ok its bad but not bad enough to jump ship yet, so I'll wait another 3 months and if 1 really big bad thing happens then I'll definitely move"... but nothing really bad happens, instead it's just lots of low level grief which feels really bad at the time. I see colleagues promoted ahead of me just because they are chummy with my boss, and it really angers me inside. But then I think to myself "well good for them" and just end up confused. The knee jerk reaction is to jump ship but nonetheless there's something holding me back. Fear of a new and uncertain environment or just plain loyalty? - I don't know. I have to be honest with myself and admit that I'd rather put up with a bit of sh1t than have the hassle of moving jobs and everything that goes with it. Any advice very welcome.

Just this morning (for an example) I received an email from one of my directors calling me spineless, stupid, lacking in intelligence (although I have a first class degree), gutless, and disgusting (for daring to ask a question in the first place). A regular occurence these days.

If it really said all the things you mention, you'd have a great case for a tribunal (possibly constructive dismissal) if it ever came to that.I'd forward that email to your personal email address so you have it stored permanently where you can always access it.BTW - why work in an environment like that?

Do you think hard copies of these emails would be enough for a tribunal?

Mars, Why would you only have hard copies? Best would be screen shots showing his email address etc. Hard copies or not.Sounds like a very strong case to bring to tribunal!

Ok I've now forwarded them to my private email account. Done. Thanks everyone - it's great to get some support on the forum!

I'm a little surprised Mars, you've always seemed very sure of yourself and rational. Thought you would have reacted to this kind of treatment earlier. Better late than never I guess.

Mars, can you paste the e-mail here (taking out any confidential references etc)? Or even just relevant snippets of it?What was the nature of the question you asked that prompted such a fierce response?Did the response actually use the words "spineless" and "disgusting"?Are other staff at the company treated this way too?

It is strange to see that someone like Mars asking for help. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one of his posts which I strongly disagree with and associate his posts with solving other people’s (of all levels) problems.It’s almost reassuring to see that someone who seems so competent still has to wade through the same shît as the rest of us. Although I’d hope what he’s just described is much worse than most.

Copies of the emails are definitely a strong piece of evidence for a tribunal if the language used is as described.At the very least if you have an HR dept. (not sure how big/small your company is) or someone responsible for disciplinary procedures (e.g. senior partner / MD) then this information should make them pay attention as they should be worried of the consequences - or simply they may not be aware of such behaviour in their company and want to put a stop to it themselves. Again - only you will know how your company works and the people involved.Electronic copies are good (sorry for the IT geeky bit) as they will contain a full trace of the route taken from start to finish if ever needed - a hard copy is a good start to push under the right person's nose however.Next step - what is it you want to achieve? Any range between simply stopping the harrassment right up to leaving and suing for constructive dismissal. The email trail/evidence is all good though whichever you opt for. I suggest also making a diary of dates/times when anything was said / emailed / done to you - also any responses / complaints / actions you have taken in response.Tribunals (and HR depts) look upon records of actions with dates/times very favourably as evidence of what you have been through - shows also that things have been happening over a period of time not just a one off indiscretion.Hope that helps and you sort out whatever you need to.

To add to the above it is worth taking a copy of the relevant emails and any diary recording any other evidence to you local Citizen's Advice Bureau (http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/) - free legal advice and an office most places in the country.Of-course the best advice would be from an employment lawyer if you are serious but the CAB is a good, free first step.

it's not so strange to see me asking for help; like everyone on here at some point, including all those who I offer advice to, sometimes we cannot see the wood for the trees and some impartial advice clears the way.Here is a taster of the email (just the latest one mind you): 'I cannot wonder what the bloody hell we are doing entrusting someone this bloody stupid to work autonomously' (this cc'd into the MD) and 'Spineless and gutless is how I see you' (same email) or this one from another recent mail: 'surely you don't need to lower yourself to advertising for candidates along with the plebs of contingency' (which is pretty damning as most of my colleagues are contingency recruiters). Having discussed it with my wife she feels I should leave and take the co to a tribunal and I am starting to agree.

Or maybe, the post from the person claiming to be Mars is not really Mars. This is an anonymous forum and its not beyond the realm of possibility that someone in a similar situation to the original poster decided to use Mars' online moniker. If this were true, an interesting question would be why said person would choose to use that particular identity. As has been noted, the post seems in contrast with the regular persona that is given from the "Mars A Day" online persona. Were I a psychology student/professional an analysis of how online personas are created and how people react to them would be appropriate here.It's also interesting to note that since the post from Mars, nobody has attempted to respond to the original poster (or at least attempted to direct their response to them). Could the original poster, realising the "value"* of the "Mars Brand"**, decide to hijack the brand and rebrand the message for forum members who would more readily respond to a "Mars" than an "anon"?* However, value is created on an anonymous forum and the metrics of its measurement.** Excuse the pun.Maybe I need to get back to work?!

When I was subject to abuse in a corporate environment, I found this gem on the net:"They can explain away specific incidents, but not the ongoing pattern of abuse".So, a record is essential.I'd also make sure you keep copies of any e-mails from clients or other people saying how well you have done a task etc. Basically start ferreting away anything that might be useful.Also, do keep the e-mails electronically. You need the full e-mail headers and hidden metadata to make it more convincing. Maybe even grab a screenshot on your mobile phone to add weight to it.Also remember that abuse can take the form of:"Blowing out of all proportion something which may have a grain of truth to it".So again, it's the pattern of these things happening which is important.

Mars, I think you've got a good case for C.D. there.Calling someone "spineless and gutless is how I see you" is NOT acceptable. Saying "what you did was spineless and gutless" is different, and rude but OK. He's attacking you as a person rather than just your work, and you could in my opinion claim that this makes it impossible for you to work there.

Mars, imagine you were the person that sent that e-mail. How OUT OF ORDER would you feel when sending something like that? I bet you wouldn't even dream of doing it. This to me is a certain way of knowing that you have a case.Disclaimer: This is not legal advice by the way.

None of the comments made were about my actual work - for which I am highly regarded - but about me personally, including 'what you did was spineless and gutless' which relates to a non directly work related personal arrangement.Allegations were also made (via email) that I had pulled a 'sickie' after sending an email out of working hours while sick. I have suffered from a recurring stress related ailment (oddly enough only since I joined my current firm!) but while it is debilitating from working in the office, I sent 1 email 2 hours after office hours and am expected to work outside hours anyway where necessary. Neither of the managers making the accusation checked the evidence, or even looked at when the email was sent from me; instead they accused me of misconduct and then broadcast the accusation around the company before I was even back to work. Having checked they should have conducted an investigation into any alleged misconduct on my part, and at least checked to see when the email was actually sent. Another example of how I am treated and the list - frankly - goes on...

I can’t see how you could fail to win a tribunal if you decided that you wanted to go ahead with it. It’ll probably be a massive chore if you do want to go down that route though. And I know the Wood/trees idea well. Telling someone else about your problem makes you actually write down/ explain all the pros and cons. Once you’ve done that it should be a relatively simple decision to make. It’s the actually being able to see the situation clearly which is hard.

Mars, get it all down on paper and I'll take a look at it for you (as a layperson). I'll put my email up here once you're ready.

I can’t see how you could fail to win a tribunal if you decided that you wanted to go ahead with it. It’ll probably be a massive chore if you do want to go down that route though. And I know the Wood/trees idea well. Telling someone else about your problem makes you actually write down/ explain all the pros and cons. Once you’ve done that it should be a relatively simple decision to make. It’s the actually being able to see the situation clearly which is hard.

Mars,One can forward an email and amend the senders address or identity. Consider doing the following if you use Outlook/Exchange. GO to the email, through the menu:View/Options/Internet Headers, then copy the detail.

Pete, when you forward an e-mail, the headers get sent with it I think

Well I've told my company I intend to resign over this issue and take action, and was told to expect a call from my Director. 24 hours later nothing. Am I suspicious? Is the Pope Catholic?

He probably doesn't want to get involved in a potentially messy situation.Who did you tell? Why not phone them up again and ask where that promised call got to?

Also, don't forget to log that particular event in your record of events because the fact that they don't appear to be t taking it seriously is significant in its own right.

Good luck Mars. Keep us posted.

Mars.Although I have not been in this position I have been involved in representing staff in grievance procedures before.The first step is to keep a diary of all unacceptable / bullying behaviour with specific incidents, dates, times and the person responsible.Forward ALL relevant email to a personal email address. Remember email is now admissible in a tribunal and your company has to provide it. They cannot delete it and say it did not exist if you are able to produce it.Most bullying is done by the same individual so go through their email to you and review the content. Bullying is not always being abusive it can be asking you to perform demeaning tasks as well for example.Even if you decided not to go for a constructive dismissal procedure (And with good evidence such as you suggest you would have a case) you would want to explain to HR just why you are leaving.I would then take all the evidence you have ammassed to a CIB who can give you legal advice and suggest the next steps.Alternatively if you work for a big company you may have anonomous legal advice through an employee advice line which you could ask advice.

Hi Mars,You might as well tell us who you work for as well. If anyone else at your company reads this thread they'll recognize the situation anyway. Just means we know to avoid them, as your comments have often been useful and you obviously don't deserve to be treated this way.

The situation is known to only a few individuals in the firm. At this point I am not going to take the step of disclosing who the firm is I work for I(yet) though, and as long as I remain anonymous there is little they can do to to claim I am damaging their reputation. My concern is that constructive dismissal - even with evidence - is apparently hard to prove (or so I have read elsewhere). this latest episode has all come from my asking to work from home for 1 - 2 days per week short term. Don't I actually have a right to request flexible working hours anyway?

You do have a right to request flexible working, although obviously your company doesn’t have to accept. And I wouldn’t name your company. If there’s a settlement then part of the agreement will probably be the promise not to talk about this to anyone. I know someone who was in a similar position, but with sexual abuse, and agreed a settlement only for the company to sue them a few months later for alleged breach of contract.

I know they have a right to decline the request, but a simple 'no' would have sufficed.

MarsIt seems to me that:1) You want to work from home 1-2 days a week2) Unknown, undiagnosed stress related illness3) All management think you are slow & unreliable 4) You do spend an ENORMOUS amount of time on this board - if you spent that time actually DOING YOUR JOB, maybe this kind of stuff wouldn't happenConclusion: Nightmare employeeAdvice: Stop winging, get a new job, don’t d1ck around at your new place of work.

Even if that is true, it still doesn't justify the abuse he has been receiving. If the firm has a problem with employee performance, then there are ways of dealing with that. Hurling insults at staff by e-mail is not a valid method and can only land the company in hot water.

Devils Advocate - is that the best pile of cr@p you can summon up?

Pretty much - why do you ask?

Devils Advocate - brilliantly said! Finally someone has said what I was thinking!

Actually I am consistently one of the top performers. Why do I spend time on this forum? Partly because the nature of my work is very stop/start - a lot of networking, resourcing etc before making the call, and it can get tedious so I like to break it up somewhat. Also I take a more people centred approach - so I take an interest in what is happening inthe market not just from the headlines but from what MCs are talking about at the daily level, what gets to them on projects etc, issues within certain firms and the like. I work all the usual hours and also in evenings and weekends when needs must. I train others, help develop our methodology, am a specialist in some rarified niche areas, and actually get on very well with almost all of my colleagues. With every client I work with I am their No 1 agent. My suggestion about working from home was not unsual - several of my colleagues do it already, and frankly I could do my job from the middle of a muddy field.Devils Advocate I hope you are not in a leadership position in MC - you must be an absolute pillock to work with if you leap to damning conclusions about people on the basis of an anon thread on this forum.But you have one point worth making - I do spend too much time on here giving people I don't know and never will advice from the experience I have earned through years and years of hard work.

Sorry about that Mars. I should have read the thread more closely. I didn’t realise that your ENTIRE management team were so incompetent that they ALL, COLLECTIVLEY, OPENLY slate their best biller, trainer, methodology builder, niche recruiter who contributes so much to the business as a whole. I do apologise. Get well soon.

Mars - if you are all the things you say you are, I'm interested, why aren't you either one of those directors or, doing your own thing? My understanding of the recruitment industry was that successful people progress extremely quickly. One thing I've never understood about recruitment is, if you have a solid list of clients (for whom you are the "No. 1 agent") why would you want to give someone else 70% (?) of your billings? You say you could do your job from a muddy field, so why don't you set-up on your own? I thought this was a classic step. On one hand you come across as a extraordinarily successful, confident, highly credible individual. On the other hand some things just don't stack up, particularly regarding your career level and positioning.

Lets not change the train of thought on this thread; it’s not often we get interesting things to talk about. You can bash each other on nearly every other thread.

Not trying to bash - I think this has been an interesting thread and I include myself in the large group of people that appreciate and enjoy Mars' input on this forum. Genuine question in terms of how Mars moves forward - as an apparently highly successful, experienced headhunter, to earn the really big bucks I thought you either became one of the aforementioned directors, or you took some clients, bought a laptop and a phone, and did it yourself so taking 100% of fees. I am interested to know why Mars wants to continue to be a mere foot soldier after many of the comments he has made?

I was really referring to the two posts before yours. But why do you say he is a mere foot-soldier? Nearly everyone has a boss. However, I do agree with you that from what I’ve heard about Mars over the few years that I’ve been frequenting this forum, assuming he could take some of his clients with him, starting out on his own could be a class idea.

No that I want to speak for Mars but setting up on your own is easier said than done. I believe most firms will have safeguards in place to prevent consultants leaving and taking all their clients with them. Also, you can be successful in the industry without owning your own business.

Mars, I'm not surprised you get spoken to in this way if you are a recruitment consultant I'm afraid.I have never met a recruitment consultant that wasn't a complete c*** and, much like an estate agent really.My advice would be sack it off and move into another industry or make a change and become an estate agent ?

anon - you must enjoy moving house and job.

Anon - what a tw-at.

Easy Anon - Were not T***s. We are salespeople who have targets, so we tend not to spend our time talking to candidates that are useless and/or total t!ts. Oh wait, that makes you...

Targets... yes, I know them. They are the bain of my life.

Well that's another thread which started positively and ended up in a slanging match - directed to me this time so I guess I had my turn coming.Rather than get into all that I'm bowing out of this thread altogether. Tony -perhaps you could just delete this entire thread?

As hijackers go, Mars writes some very interesting posts. Nonetheless you did (in your own words) hi-jack someone elses thread (or less likely you posted under different names in the same thread).Why do you assume we all want to go where you're going?What gives you the right to request that the entire thread is deleted?It wasn't yours to start with!

ye ! let's hijack it back and discuss how brilliant (or otherwise) recruitment consultants are and what an utterly pointless service they provide !

Hi! I'm one of those utterly pointless recruiters you mention! I'm 27, got 50k last year and on target to earn 70k this year, next year with the wind blowing in the right direction hopefully more! I work 40 hour weeks, no weekends (a few evening calls of course), and apart from some pressure, which I enjoy, I have a nice life.So who cares if you think it's pointless! Enjoy your 70 hour week muggins!

HAHAHA good come back !Substitute job for double glazing and candidate for home owner and you do exactly the same as a double glazing salesman.Keep up the good work !

not exactly. once the double glazing salesmen sells the window he doesn't then make 20% of whatever that window earns for however long it stays in the house.so keep up the 70 hour weeks chaps - kerching!

By the way, Don't feel too smug. 50k is only 11k more than our graduates start on at 21 !You may be the big cheese in the world of cold-calling-tele-sales but your not in the consulting world.Also, once the ar*e falls out of recruitment you will be back saying "Would you like fries with that" quicker than you can touch up your hoxton fin haircut.

By the way, Don't feel too smug. 50k is only 11k more than our graduates start on at 21 !You may be the big cheese in the world of cold-calling-tele-sales but your not in the consulting world.Also, once the ar*e falls out of recruitment you will be back saying "Would you like fries with that" quicker than you can touch up your hoxton fin haircut.

By the way, Don't feel too smug. 50k is only 11k more than our graduates start on at 21 !You may be the big cheese in the world of cold-calling-tele-sales but your not in the consulting world.Also, once the ar*e falls out of recruitment you will be back saying "Would you like fries with that" quicker than you can touch up your hoxton fin haircut.

at least he can work the forum correctly

dddfdfds, why don't you and your little recruitment mates go back to selling mobile phones or whatever it is you do when your not constantly calling up candidates during office hours and trying to pitch some random opportunity that has no bearing on the skills listed on their CV.

Everyone is cr&p but me.

2 more posts and this is the longest thread ever.Come on everyone - lets take something good out of this whole thread

anonimator - well, it's because I'm constantly calling up candidates during office hours and trying to pitch some random opportunity that has no bearing on the skills listed on their CV. When I start doing that occassionally, I'll have more time for the mobile sales.

Anonimator - you have been very active today, can I presume you have been left on the bench and have nothing better to do? I would offer you this great job...but I'd imagine you're not good enough...p.s. please try not to send your reply 3 times.

dddfdfds, why don't you and your little recruitment mates go back to selling mobile phones or whatever it is you do when your not constantly calling up candidates during office hours and trying to pitch some random opportunity that has no bearing on the skills listed on their CV.

....and exhale.Did the duplicated posts count? Come on Anonimator. Keep it together.We were going for a record there.

lets remove some of the RE:'s from the subject line

3 weeks have passed. What happened with this Mars?

I made it clear I was prepared to walk, and suddenly out came the olive branch - very quickly.

Make sure you hit them with it. Hope you don't ever need them but keep the copies of the emails

Not wanting to state the obvious but I take it you have applied the classic recruiter objection handling lines i.e. 1. Doesn't that prove how undervalued you were before? 2. How does it make you feel knowing that you had to virtually resign before they took you seriously?3. If the olive branch was extended now, does this mean it won't be extended at normal appraisal time? 4. Does it not put you in a weaker position now, as your loyalty will be questioned?You know the lines Mars, we use them with candidates every week!

Yes very aware of those points Recruiter Classics. Yes my loyalty has been questioned - subtly - and the whole matter has left a bad taste in my mouth. But at the moment I am having fun keeping them on their toes with little comments, odd actions etc which they interpret as sending them alarming and mixed messages about my intentions. What fun!This thread could - and probably will - go on forever... Sorry original poster, I didn't expect this to become a monster post!

I relocated; thought this would be a solution in the longer term but the commute is proving too much (i.e. no life outside work anymore) and I will have to resign to get enough time to find something else anyway. Ironic.

From what you've said above I'm sure it's for the best Mars. Good luck with your job hunt.

Mars, how did things work out?

"Hi, I have worked on different projects.Recently, I have found out that my former project manager has taken credit for my work, while backstabbing me for our managers and even clients.What to do? "---------------------------------------------------------CHANGE CAREER!! Welcome to the real world!

Frisco how did you dig up this old thread? Nice of you to ask though, much appreciated :)I did leave the firm, in a professional manner I might add, with the intention to secure a role elsewhere. I got an offer for a great looking role in just over a week, but when I sat down with management for a wash up there did seem to be a cooling of tempers on all sides and conciliatory agenda. So I decided to stay (as in return to the business while still on garden leave).I was then promptly stripped of my clients, and to add insult several colleagues were given impunity to work from home at will.So I misjudged the situation, but as things outside of working life have started to become more important than the job, I've been content to just let this run for now.

Sorry to hear that, Mars. Just goes to show how dangerous and difficult it is to try to reverse a situation, even when you have the very best intentions.

Its the proverbial laboratory of life anon - just goes to show when its time to move on no amount of trying to make things work ever really...work

Mars it was on my mind for a while as I was going through something tangentially similar and wondered of the outcome.Sorry to hear things didn't work out so well. However, as you said, things outside of working life are becoming more important than the job, which they should be!All the best going forward.

Thanks Frisco - hope your own situation had a more positive outcome.