What chance would someone with 2 years pre-MBA experience at Bain have of joining Accenture's Management Consulting practice? In particular the cross-industry strategy group... Do you think I would need to do an MBA first?

Gino is this question taking the p1ss?

No this is a serious question. Why... are the two not comparable?

Do this:1. Buy a stopwatch, preferably a good one which can measure thousandths of a second, such as used in Formula 1 racing.2. Send your CV to Accenture.3. Start your stopwatch. Be ready to stop it again within a couple of seconds.4. Take phone call/read email from ACN.OR1. Take your CV to ACN by hand.2. Put CV through door.3. Withdraw arm stump where they have taken CV and bitten your hand off.Voila!

Really!? I thought Strategy at Accenture was different to the rest of the company. I know some people there and they make out its very selective.

hehehe, funny ;)

Advantages of Accenture: * Long-term career possibilities* Working with top clients* A growing strategy and management consulting practice* Execution is what clients want and will want in the future* Amazing network with people (and yes, many have gone to the top schools and have work experience at top firms) across the world * Accenture understands globalization and is capitalizing in huge waysI recently worked on a management consulting project with global consumer goods client- it involved product development, new markets, a new operating model, and managing change. What is a company's "vision"? It is a company portrait of the strategic plan; how a company is different from competitors; its identity; what the company provides its customers.What is "strategy"? It is the process of developing a road map that will get the company from where it is now—at the very inception of the company, or at the point where a decision has been taken to redefine the company—to get it to where it wants to be in the marketplace; how the company is going to attack the marketplace and achieve its vision; how the company goes to market.You will work with these principles in great depth at Accenture, with a focus on executing the "vision" through a plan of action, a strategy, which will create impact and results for the client.

wow, ACN MCIM,Your comments have such little substance.Seriously, I dont think that even undergrads would believe that comment...

You are simply incorrect. Perception should not trump reality.In reality, ACN does everything Bain does, particularly when you compare the size of ACN's MCIM practice (~13,000) and strategy practice (~2500), which in total, is not much different than Bain. As well, this also demonstrates the clear divide between the MCIM practice and the systems integrators. Accenture is a huge company, with end-to-end capabilities. When directly comparing ACN to Bain, one must compare only that which is similar, not the systems practice. Bain should start implementing more ideas anyway.

Bain does the "thinking" then Accenture go get dirty in the trenches and implement it. Very simple.

If that makes you feel better about yourself, then you can keep thinking that. It is precisely this kind of self-justification that really makes me smile. 1. Bain does not have the ability to implement2. See my definition of "vision" and "strategy". In the real world, the "how you get it done" is as or more important than "what must be done". Accenture does both. 3. We live in a global world, in which IT, client service, and value are critical. Clients have and will continue to pay for service providers with end-to-end capabilities. Simply put, it saves time and money.4. Bain fears Accenture. Why do they keep hiring Accenture partners? Why do they keep justifying their inability to execute? Why are they frantically growing their IT practice? You are living in the past and are obsessed with old sterotypes. This only hurts you.

OK, looks like we have a HR troll on the board.Don't drink the kool-aid, kids.

I don't even think its about who is "better" fundamentally I think its about who offers the better career experience. On this count, I have to say, it would be Bain all the way. No PMO pretending to be strategy there....

Think this is turning into a pointless debate of Bain vrs ACN. Gino ACN would be pleased to have you. MBB is the gold standard regardless and all other consulting firms know this. The end.

Congratulations to the Accenture PR department on this attempt to feign parity with Bain

Show me people at the top positions in industry who have worked in ACN compared to Bain. At BP the CEO asked Bain to review its org structure. Has anyone in ACN ever had access to the top people in the major companies.AcN = PMO, project management, SI, plain and simple.I knew a guy senoir manager from ACN in a management role at a utility but in IS; i know an equivalent person in the same company who is at a higher position in the BUSINESS function. The person in the business function will have a chnace to get to the Board and may be be CEO, whilst the ACN guy will only ever be able to get to CIO, and in most cases these guys don't even get on the Baord, they report to a COO instead.Whatever way you cut the pie, Bain's quality, prestige and reputation are in another platform to ACN..plain and simple.Zbigniew Brzezinski

Stop comparing apples with oranges.Bain vs MckAcn vs CapG and some part of DeloitteNow is all up to you. What do you want in life....PMO - know about IT operations and little strategy implementation then Acn.Want high level thinking you better run to Bain.Now long term should be critical in your decision making. If you are the type that wants to work for someone for longer than neccessary then join remain in Bain till for a while before joiing any other firm.Harvard and INSEAD might be the same quality of education but not the same brand quality. I am not saying they are the same or Acn = Bain. Just a close comparison for you

I dont think ACN can be compared to CapG at all... the systems bit can but ACN really does complete in the same space as Bain and McKinsey for many strategy assignments. For those early on in their careers, ACN will get you into any of the schools Bain or McK would providing you have the right academics and extracurriculars.

In terms of percentages of people, you are of course correct. What I am saying is that you erroneously stereotype all of Accenture as being PMO, SI, etc. This is fundamentally incorrect. I can name at least 100 close friends of mine who have worked on new operating models, sales transformations, brand strategy (and execution), product development, etc. Just think of what ACN has done at AstraZeneca, as but one example. I believe that you do not understand the entirety of Accenture's capabilities. They are Andersen Consulting (and now a much greater SI and outsourcing company in addition). Since I can literally find every project they have done and analyze this work, I can tell you that you are incorrect in your analysis of Accenture.

Folks, I feel you are all missing the point entirely here. This is conclusive proof that Accenture are a world-domineering force to be reckoned with. ACN MCIM is just the first of millions to be taken in under Accenture's "Brainwashing for Success" scheme. Next up are heads of state, diplomats, business leaders from around the world. Be afraid. Be very afraid.x

Is this your standard method for debate? If you want credibility, debate the facts presented. I have an open mind. However, childish retorts to what should be a professional debate reflect quite poorly on you.

Hi Gino, this tread is already off on a tangent but wanted to ask a quick question - What's the work/life balance and your general personal experience at Bain? Read that it is one of the 'happiest places to work' according to the Times.

Fundamentally, ACN is undergoing a massive internal change. Our new operating model is seeking to address some of the problems we have had where Strategy and Management Consulting in the true sense became lost in the scrum to grow our Technology and Outsourcing service lines. I was initially highly cynical of this change but, from what I see, it’s going to result in the market understanding better our internal distinctions under the Accenture brand umbrella. ACN is a hugely successful company by any standard. However, there is an understanding that mistakes were made in allowing the Management Consulting practice to become somewhat run down in the eyes of the market. There are now massive efforts to correct this and the result is the start of a real renaissance. This journey is not yet complete but I think we are certainly on the right path and it’s not as if we lack the internal will, resources or people to make it happen.

lets get realistic chaps.SITE might have done one or two good things, but the purpose of their existance is to win bigger SI projects which is what brings in the bulk of accenture's revenue. Their aim is not to sell strategy in the way the real strat houses do.aiming to be a 200,000 man strong organisation you are bound to have some sub-standard people (there are plenty now). Over time, they will errode the top reputation that was associated with the days of hiring top-tier uni grads. Accenture is the new EDS. Period.

Acn SM, if you really are an Accenture SM, you clearly don't understand the operating model in your own organisation. Firstly, SITE is NOT Strategy... they are the IT strategy practice. The Strategy service line undertakes non-IT consulting projects. Second, its not a sustainable business model to be the new EDS. Your perspective of the organisation is clearly limited and your views ill informed.

i thought the question of this topic was to do with moving from Bain to SITE - if its some other strategy practice in ACN, which i have not really come across, then I may be mistaken.ACN rebrand their org structure every 6 months. I can guarantee you that what you're seeing now will change - already trying to put SITE under ATC has caused a storm. ATC itself is a very confused heirarchy.Also says a lot about this 'strategy' group that you mention existing in ACN because i know that the majority of people dont even know it exists.As for ACN talent: if you haven't seen the drop then you either dont work here or fall in to the sub-standard category yourself. 11 years ago when i joined, it was only those from top-tier universities and with 2.1 or 1sts, with 28+ UCAS points that were joining. Do you have any idea what sort of people are coming in now? Do you have any idea??

that there are some brilliant people on the market from Accenture who joined ACN 10+ years ago who are tarnished with the brush of what the company is now. They are still a great company but serious rival to the MBBB they are certainly not. Before the string of ACN defenders step up... yes they are vey rprofitable and very good at what they do. What they do, however, is not really pure strategy any more.

99% of our 170,000 people don't do strategy and that clearly includes Acn SM. However my part of the organisation DOES do real strategy work and everyone I work with either has a top MBA or top undergrad. Strategy is only 190 people in the UK and clearly the majority of people who are locked in the basement churning out systems dont come into contact with them. I think that proves the distinction.

MC - where in the organisation are you? I know SITE very well and worked with them before. I have not heard of your group.Also, you statistically saythe point that only 1% of Accenture do 'real' strat ( i think that is probably too high a figure), but compare that with the percentages that the strat houses that do strat...

We are smaller than MBB but what does that have to do with anything?I sit in MCIM - Cross Industry Strategy

You are all wonderful

MC - i have never come across your organisation - maybe my own fault, but i think you need to improve your internal presence.for for %'age. it says a lot about where the company is pitching in the market. Accenture is not, and never will be, known for strategy consulting. Its an IT shop and eventually this reputation will phase out the 'sexy' groups like the one you work in. over the long term, an organisation will survive and only be successful in its core competencies - other areas fade away. I saw this happen first hand with the 'sexy' groups that did well for a short time in the Big 6 (at the time) audit firms. Time ran out and they eventually fizzled away.Print and save this message. Read it in 3 years time.

Simply put, your comments are ignorant. They assume a status quo. Who makes an argument without looking at how conditions are changing? It is truly frightening how poor your analysis skills are.

thanks for pointing out that my analysis skills are poor.i apologise i am not thinking like you.maybe one day i will detach myself from reality and agree with you and even shed a tear of emotion at the horizon 2012 videos.

btw, what does MCIM stand for?

Shades of grey. All very boring

That last comment can't be serious... You don't know what MCIM is?My god which basement are you locked in? MCIM = Management Consulting & Integrated Markets. I don't want to offend, but perhaps you need to reconnect with the firm you work for before passing comment on its business model and prospects.

can you provide me with a link on the public website?or if you are on the kx, tell me the heirarchy as i am interested to get to the bottom of this.

Search "strategy service line" on the KX. Click on "corporate strategy". Good luck.

how many people in your UK group? 7?sorry, we're comparing apples and pears now.I wish you well, but don't lose sight of your organisation's core competency.

Couple of hunderd globally... about 50 in the UK formally aligned to Corporate Strategy but approx 200 in the overall Strategy service line. I wish you well also, and by the same token I hope you will come to see that there is a much wider Accenture footprint beyond IT.

ACN is the Tesco of the consulting world.

Great bob... just throw that in there. If thats true then perhaps it's OK... Tesco is one of the most sophisticated food retailers in the world and actually quite popular as an exit destination for MBB consultants and others. You clearly know nothing.

I work for ACN. I agree with the Tesco comment, making a fortune and slowly taking over the world!I also have never heard of MCIM, I work in SITE (SAP) and we account for 30% of ACNs vast revenues. Couldn't care less about working for a poncy MBBB or strat section of big 4 - and they would never have me anyway. In no way do I look up to these companies or the people that work for them, nor do I care if they are 'proper' management consultancies. I enjoyed my Uni life, lots of partying, very little work and rewarded with a desmond at the end. Now I have a good work life balance and enjoy working for a very successful company. I can not understand why so many people on these forums are so obsessed and uptight about being at the right end of 'management consulting' whatever that is....

MC,Interesting that you bristled at my post. You made an assumption that my comment was pejorative. Shame on you! How snobbish :-)BobWorkshy - what a refreshing post!

SITE does not do any SAP work.. you are in SAP implementation. Truth be known, lots of people don't care. If you are happy being average and can live with the idea that, age 40, you might be living a very different life to someone who really "went for it" then thats OK. In the end you are a plodder in the career sense, but just dont expect everyone else to think that way. BTW I enjoyed Uni life also but not at the expense of my future prospects.

dear workshyit depends on your career aspirations. you fit in well with the new breed of accenture. taking over the world we are, but the quality of people is dimishing. 10 years ago pay was in the 95th centile, now we scrape the 75th and in a few years we'll be lucky to be in the 60th.although we are gaining a lot of business, we are also losing a lot too. gains are in IT sweatshopping and losses are in management consulting. there is no way you can keep paying MC salaries to an organisation of IT implementors - they are not high enough up on the value chain. Hence we're fast becoming the next EDS.when the economy hits the reset button only then will it become apparent the larger they are, the harder they fall. an organisation as big as accenture doing what it does it just not sustainable over the long period.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone got into SITE with a desmond. Unless of course you went in as an experienced hire?

Well, If Accenture really does now enjoy a tarnished reputation, I think its fair to say its because of people like "workshy". Its pretty painful to read that post. You represent ACN very poorly.

God Acn SM you just won't stop banging that drum will you. Look, take GE. Yes, plenty of people working on the factory floor and plenty of people who are not high flyers. BUT, in GE just like ACN, if you have aspiration there is a place for you at the very top of the value chain. As I say, the area I work in still does "real" consulting and is 100% top undergrad/MBA. This area also has plans to expand ove the next 3 years and has a very different pay structute to the rest of the company.

Acn is full of desmonds. Half of SITE are internal transfers and the last thing they look at is your degree result.In fact, due to the new age discrimination act, it is possible to get in without a degree because your gcse, a-level and degree cert in conjunction can reveal your age. this is case no firm want to go to court over.

"You represent ACN very poorly."In what way? Exposing the benefits of a +ve WLB? Understanding and embracing the relative value of his educational achievements? Being happy with his lot in life?Why does this deserve vitriol?

Dear MCHow many CEO's doors does your group have their foot in? What i am saying is that it is easy to think you are in the best place in the world...life is hypnotic at accenture, but you must look at the wider market and its players to see where i am coming from.

Gino,Still keen on ACN? Have you considered event management consulting?LEAVE THE LOSERS BEHIND, JOIN ME - JOIN THE NEW ECONOMY.

Actually we are in contact with the C-Suite in many fortune 500 companies. I regularlty present directly to CEOs and in fact I have a presentation on Monday with the CEO of a large European airline. As I say, Strategy is NOT like the rest of the company.

sorry, i just dont believe you will be presenting to a CEO of a large airline co.mabe a C-level person of another capacity, but not the CEO.

Well it matters not whether you believe me... its happening!

MC - you sound so uptight, it must be heartbreaking for the elite like you to see the low life scum like me filtering in to your wonderful company. You are correct I am a 'plodder' but I still have a flat in London, a house in the country, a nice car and a great family life. I work a 40 hour week and take 4 holidays a year. What do you have apart from a 2:1 and a massive ego?

So MC,How can one of us lesser minions in Accenture get in to MCIM internally or would it be a case of MBA-ing to get in?Accenture has decent, friendly people who I get on with really well and as a company, I actually quite like them. Delivering big IT systems on the other hand is dull dull dull.

OH MY GOD. Will everyone please be quiet. Some facts:1) Accenture is a very successful SI house2) Accenture does do things that are not technology - but not much3) An awful lot of our Management Consulting work is actually value identification work for larger technology programmes - this includes so-called Strategy (if you don't beleive me go look at the credentials pages under Strategy 80% are technology related).I am frankly embarassed by this whole thread. I am embarassed by the Strat boys trying to justify the chip on their shoulders: you didn't get into MBBB - deal with it. I am embarassed by the SI&T eejits: You write computer programs and probably have little understanding of our MC practice - deal with it.

the accenture culture is so strong that the majority of people are blinded by it and most employees are convinced that they work for the best company in the area they work in.i know because i used to think like this.what acn really is a an awesome IT services shop - not one can take that away from them and thats what they will be best

I am tired of this... acn SM just keep banging the drum. Clearly your perspective is what it is and there is no point continuing the discussion. Have a great weekend everyone.

and good luck in your presentation to the CEO on Monday.btw, are you a consultant or manager?

It is painfully obvious that you are not an ACN Senior Manager. If you are, then I feel sorry for you. Your pessimism and ignorance reflect poorly on yourself and your company.Please retire.

@the ACN guy;You can name 100 close friends that do whatever came next in your sentence????PS/ I am not a close friend