It’s going to be tricky, but need your advice. If I lie on my CV what kind of tools does the recruiter have to check this out? I want to make ‘small’ lie on my CV and add an internship within MC area (not necessarily MBBB). I know it’s unethical, but I believe that the potential employer will focus anyway on my 4yrs of post uni experience and not an internship during my graduate education. I just want to have 2-3 months of MC mark on my CV.What kind of tools does an employer have to check this? They are not going to call the company I supposedly had an internship with 4 yrs ago to check this out, are they?

twat

liar, As a current consultant who is regularly called upon to interview candidates to the company I reckon I could disprove your experience in three, if not two, questions - your call...

2nd Anon - thanks for reply. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but just try to understand. My roommate was on 2-month-internship in MBBB. The only thing he was doing (in general) is: researching the industry of the client (trends, M&A, macroecon.), helping in building financial forecast (a bit more advanced Excel) and also he was working a lot on presentations. Because of the short nature he didn't do anything more specific. Having said this, if I'd repeat that this is what I did, how obvious it would be that it's not true?

Youd get away with that, mind you I would ask you about the wider project, the benefits, risks and what value you were adding.If you worked in the company you would know this, furthermore froma select list of clients you may be asked to namedrop, but anonymity and all that...If your good enough, then a white lie can help.

None of us have the right to pass moral judgment in this issue. We have all lied at times. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Tactically, the error is in assuming that interviewers would not focus on the short fictional internship. Ofcourse, the recent experience would be important but I suspect that a consultant interviewer would most likely note the consulting experience/internship and be quite interested in it. Also, consulting is a small world and it could easily be the case that the interviewers know someone who worked there or, much worse, worked there themselves. Unless you have a friend, who works for a small unknown consulting house (in which case, the value to your profile is limited anyway), I would say that the risks outweigh the benefits.Also the problem do not necessarily end when you get the jobhttp://www.ft.com/cms/s/bc8a2946-1add-11dc-8bf0-000b5df10621.htmlhttp://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2103549,00.html#article_continuehttp://www.scidev.net/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=printarticle&itemid=2752&language=1http://www.onrec.com/newsstories/16597.asp

Most companies will check your references going back 5 years so my advice is NOT to lie. Also, if you get found out after you join you'll be sacked and who wants that on their record?A good interviewer will be able to spot your white lie a mile away.

liar, there should be a theme coming out here. You aim to make a living by offering expert and impartial trusted advice, how can you hope to do this if you can't even be honest with yourself, and your own limitations?

liar, You've gone pretty quiet - I hope you're not still scheming in the shadows? Just in case you are you might like to read what happened to a fine man when the embroidering of his track record finally caught up with him; but like I say, it's your call:http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D05EFDB1339F93BA25756C0A960958260

Thanks for all the opinions. I decided to take the risk... If it doesn't work out I'll have lesson for the future and won't lie any more. I'll try it on one consultancy first and see how it goes. Thanks again for input.

Add "stupid", liar.

Wouldn't it be great if your recuiter came across this post and decided to look out for anyone with such a CV, and grilled you on it!

liar, I just hope it's going to be me that get's to interview you - or one of the thousands of current consultants that reads this blog. We might then get a 'shortest time in interview' thread to enjoy...

Why do people like to behave like they are saints...most of us lie (including recruiters)at least once a week (no matter how small) and because 'liar' wants to use it to further his/her career does not mean he/she is any worse. Its a cold world out there and in the end, one has to look out for him/herself.Liar...do what u wish but be READY to face the consequences.

Last Anon - thank you for the valid comment.Rest of the Anons - I am not going to debate with you my decision, as it is mine. What I propose however is that I come back here again with the update. Then we'll see who was right (i.e. whether indeed one of you will spot my lie in 10sec or you overestimate your capabilities).

After this last post I have no doubts... you are cut for a shiny career in consulting.What an assh**e

liar, go for it, don't mind these buffoons.The worst that would happen is you don't get the job.If you lie, it might be the decider whether you get an interview or not.In this stupid recruitment world were people are cut based purely on some elitist Oxbridge, public school biase that is slant in favour of privileged kids, what is wrong with using a lie to leverage your chances? Especially such an inconsequential lie.I wish you get the job so some of these buffoons can shut up.The examples given about those found out shows those that were not smart enough to retune their profile to the genuine one once the necessary experience was gained.

Always tell the truth on your CV.If you have so little respect for your own accomplishments and value yourself so little that you have to lie, then how can you expect anyone else to respect or value you?It is very sad when people blame a faulty system for their own lives. We all know people who desperately try to deceive themselves. They don't make for good consultants or colleagues. In my direct experience, when someone can't be honest and objective with themselves, they also have trouble being honest and objective with clients or anyone else they work with. Net, this destroys more value in an assignment than all the project plan inaccuracies and out-of-date market market put together.It is shortsighted to think of the CV as the operant selection mechanism. The self-selection mechanism is the choice of whether to lie or not. Admittedly it's a rough cut tool, but it's a pretty reliable one as to a candidate's maturity and suitability to be giving advice to anyone else.

Hey nothing wrong with lying.Once you have got the job you can lie about your expenses too. Just a few extra miles than you actually did. Who is going to know? You deserve it. They are underpaying you.Oh and why not bill the client some extra days that you did not actually work? After all you did work harder than everyone else so they should recognise that.Then maybe you can tell a girl you are actually a partner rather than a junior consultant to get her to go put with you. It is only a white lie. She will benefit from the experience.Then maybe you can tell her you are good looking and honest. Get her to marry you.

OMG... I want to live where you guys live... In the place where everybody is so honest and has such a great ethics. The worl I'm living in sucks. People lie on a dail basis and even my big great consultancy rips clients off. But that's London... in your world Angels it must be different.Liasr - try. Nothing to lose.

In my world, people who wish to make a credible point bother to use spelling and punctuation correctly. Those who do not bother to do so are generally of a lazy mindset and predisposed to justify their cheating any way they can - usually by lying to themselves and others.We live in the world we create. London is a better place to do business than places such as Lagos, Moscow and Rome precisely because the market operates with a better degree of openness and individual actors behave more honestly.

So are you saying that you set your ethical standards by sheepishly following the worst of what you see in London?You make your own bed.

You can respect your accomplishment all you want but you are competing, in some cases, with privileged kids that have had the gloss of classy schools and universities (purely bcos of stronger financial backing) to their profile as well as high-flying work experience in one of their father's closest friends' firm, where there was a "no compete" clause in the job vacancy criteria.You can respect your accomplishment all you want but unfortunately, top notch job selection is usually not thorough and objective enough for the less privileged to compete based on ability or potential alone, that is why children from less privileged background on aggregate do not fly as high career wise NOT because they are dumber.As far as I am concerned, undercut where you can as long as it does not have a huge negative impact e.g. claiming you have a medical qualification when you don't.Lie about an internship (no gaddamn harm) and when you get the job and have worked in it for 3 years or so remove it from your CV.

...I am not going to debate with you my decision, as it is mine. What I propose however is that I come back here again with the update. Then we'll see who was right (i.e. whether indeed one of you will spot my lie in 10sec or you overestimate your capabilities)...Why come on a forum like this, you little sh1t, and then ignore all of the good advice you are given? Even if you do bluff your way into a decent consultancy you stand every chance of being found out as you CV is put forward to clients, and is seen by colleagues who will see straight through your lie.Also if you think any decent company spends 10 seconds checking your CV you are a fool! And by the way, don't come back here and update us when you have your first little success, that just means you've managed to join the ranks of all the other dogdy operators out there - come back and update us when you are known for the liar to are (or propose to be) and see how happy you claim to be then.If you are goign to behave like a little shi1t, and insult the intelligence of the people you want to work for, then the best you can hope for is to be treated like a sh1t - don't say you weren't warned...

Primo: hope I won't have to work with people like you 'You little sh1t', as obviously you don't have enough brains to behave polite and professional even though you have different point of view.Segundo: the fact that I decided to lie, doesn't mean that I ignore others. I asked for opinions and as you can see it's not so black and white. The fact that majority advices against, doesn't mean that I have to follow this way. I have better picture now, but decided to take the risk.Tertio: don't get so emotional - it's not good for your health. Don't you have anything else to worry about than some post on some Forum? 3 deep breaths and enjoy the life!

Liar, you are doing nothing I have not een on a daily basis and its ignored everywhere.For instance, Indian candidates will allude they can do anything when being interviewed for a post in the UK (Sometimes you can actually hear them reading a book or being coached) once a man turned up but we interviewed a woman, their agency swore blind it was the same person.Once they turn up it becomes apparent that they are no more gifted than a UK based computing professional with an HNC.And their outsourcer is charging you £32 an hour for these skills.There you go an example of a lie we see every day and accept as we think its:1. Cheap2. Good labour3. We in the UK as alluded to in other posts tend to be open and project these values to others who may not be quite so open or under different pressures.So whats a lie about something that has no bearing on your next step, as opposed to a key position in a development contract.Answers on a postcard...

I agree with 'You little sh1t', liar your arrogance is breathtaking - go and sell timeshares, where your talents will be properly appreciated, and stop wasting grown-ups time.

People, I cannot believe what I am reading. Liar is showing far more decency than most do. He is actually stopping to think about the lie he is telling on the CV. OK, so I am a head-hunter which will doubtless lead to howls of derision as usual but if I could show you the various versions of people's CV's I have (most likely some who contribute to this forum) you would see that few of us are any better than liar. When you have been doing my job for 10 or so years as I have, it is incredible how regularly a short lived job disappears from a CV to be replaced by an elongation of the jobs either side of it, a job title is creatively enhanced, sales figures are virtually doubled for relevant candidates, qualificiations enhanced etc. When you have previous versions of the same person's CV, you really have to know your stuff to keep up. I would probably make more placements if I could resist the temptation of sending the candidate the 2 previous versions of his/her CV or asking what happened to job X or job Y from a couple of years ago, which has been removed.The serious point is this. If you graduate and fall straight into a tier 1 strat firm, you probably do not need to lie. If you are not that fortunate (and yes, fortune does play a major role), you become subject to some of the screening techniques, which are likely to rule you out of jobs you are well capable of doing. You can understand why someone would resort to lying. As a graduate with a 2:1 or 1st from a decent university, you have a reasonable shout at getting into a good company (especially now that the employment market is quite strong). At more experienced hire level, it is much tougher -albeit for a higher entry point - to get in. If you graduated when the market was flat and the top firms were barely hiring at graduate level, your profile is likely to have suffered by comparison to those who graduated in better times.The general rule of thumb as far as I can make out is that you should lie to the point at which you can deliver. When you get into consulting and potentially end up on pitches, you will regularly see partners and other in sales situations exaggerating tha capabilities of the organisation and the capabilities of the consultants on the project. When I read the on-line profiles of individuals I actually know quite well, these are often the greatest works of fiction since Oliver Twist. In a corporate situation, this is known as marketing or positioning. In a candidate application situation, it is immoral BS....In my view Liar, much as I would be duty bound to "out" you if I detected the lie, I can fully understand the temptation. As long as you can actually do the job and make sure your CV is not distributed too widely (ie do not post the "creative version on a load of websites), you will probably get away with it.

there is massive difference between putting a bit of spin on a CV (overestimating your role, streatcing dates a bit) and a blatant out and out lie

so it is OK for you to lie but not anon. If your lie were to be detecting ( I assume you have actually stretched the dates as you suggest), which could very easily happen if an HR reference is taken from a previous employer, you would face the same fate as liar. You are basically saying it is OK for you to lie but not OK for Liar to do so

Honest Tom, that was a very brilliant post.I particularly like the following points:"you become subject to some of the screening techniques, which are likely to rule you out of jobs you are well capable of doing." (If you can't do it, you will not pass through the assessment centres anyway)"If you graduated when the market was flat and the top firms were barely hiring at graduate level, your profile is likely to have suffered by comparison to those who graduated in better times."(When employers focus on "consulting" experience so much at junior levels, this is the injustice that happens to those that were subject to negative market forces.)"The general rule of thumb as far as I can make out is that you should lie to the point at which you can deliver."(The recruitment process should be able to determine this or else the employer should be blamed. You yourself would be embarassed and probably stressed if you promise what you can't deliver.)"you will regularly see partners and other in sales situations exaggerating tha capabilities of the organisation and the capabilities of the consultants on the project."(To the righteous bunch on this forum, can any tell me their firm does not do this? So what gives them the moral high ground to be offended when it is tried on thier firm like if it is some pastorial, pious industry?)Anon that advocates you can spin but not give sublte lies is obviously an idiot talking from another hole that lacks tongue and teeth. So he/she thinks his/her spin is morally more righteous?

My advice would be not to underestimate people's ability to spot a bull$s177er a mile off. You may get away with a small lie every now and then, but it's not a good habit to get into.Bit of a random story but I once had a guy write to me (in 2003) with a CV saying that he had founded Spain's version of Google. And it's amazing how many people supposedly have budgets of £100M+. And I can't even count how many 'masters degrees' actually turn out to be 'diplomas' when you take a look at the certificate. Invariably a little deep questioning gets beneath the surface and exposes gross exaggerations for what they are. I dread to think what kind of downright lies the recruitment agents who have to review this kind of stuff all day for a living come across.

Hiring is not a moral issue, its a commercial one; either we all behave with suitably aligned moral compasses (in which case goodbye to every shred of bonus) or we take it as it is - market forces created this dilemma, and market forces will deal with it. Liar if your gamble pays off, good for you - you beat the market; if you get found out, the market will beat you - and in such a small, heavily networked industry as MC you may find you have cut your own (commercial) throat. Your choice.

Very good points SVP and Mars A Day.

Basically, you either had the internship or you didn't, and if you didn't what did you do - spend the summer flipping burgers, or backpacking - it's not 'a stretch' to say this is an internship with MBBB, it's pure fiction, and will sound like it...

Don't you see any irony Liar, you get offended when someone calls you a sh1t - but you expect them to give up interview time to eat your sh1t??

Look forward to reading this one in the tabloids soon, under 'Consultants train applicants in how to lie' heading - nice thread guys!

It's pathetic! On a daily basis I receive exaggerated CVs from all sorts of candidates (junior, senior, etc). I'd say that 40% of CVs are misleading to some extent. I bet that many of you - anonymously criticising the liar here - do or did exactly the same when you were applying for the job. Be honest with yourself and don't criticise others, while you are not so perfect as you wish to be!

I think the correct statistic is that 80% is BS. Strategy Consulting does at least protect itself by putting candidates through complex case study exercises. The industries, which really suffer are those who still hire off the back of a couple of meaningless chats and a creative CV.

I always wondered what consultancies got by way of 'screening' for the £10ks "head hunters" charge, (read other threads on what a valuable service you provide!). Thanks for confirming it is just the recycling of 80% BS - well done guys for putting yourselves out of a job!

and yet my end user clients regularly complain that (and I quote a Senior VP from a fortune 100 firm) "we pay a fortune so that young graduates can recycle information which we have to spoonfeed them". We are asked to head-hunt key people. Our job is to find and qualify. the client takes responsibility for the hiring decision. If you find head-hunters pointless, this is probably more a reflection of your abilities as a candidate and therefore the calibre of head-hunter who considers you worth the time it takes to have a conversation.

Wrong again 'recycling expert' - I am at a senior level in a large consultancy, and I'm regularly called upon to interview at up to Director level - connect to the third email. You might like to consider this fact along with your assumption (false) that all consultants lie on their CVs, and the implications for our choice of suppliers...

I'm the Partner and cannot imagine working without head hunters. Candidates lie constantly and it'd be waste of my time to interview and investigate them. Head hunters won't detect all the lies but at least provide some filter.

Partner, I fully agree with your point - head hunters do serve a useful role, but I don't think it is in anyone's interest to encourage, or be seen to be encouraging, lying on CVs, as was originally suggested.

Lying on a CV can never be condoned, but not always detected either - if a candidate wants to take this risk of detection, and accepts the risks to their careers, then so be it. As headhunters it is not our role to fire missives at candidates instructing them on how to behave ethically; it is our job to find the best people, sort the wheat from the chaff, and investigate a candidate sufficiently to be able to make a recommendation to our client based on all the evidence we have available.

.... just do not know where to begin.... have not got the time to comment on all the bizarre comments you seem to be making. Fundamental inability to understand written English is clearly no longer a quality required of the great elite you so obviously represent.

Pointless, indeed!

Same old chesnut. Yawn.

If it will not affect your performance on the job why not? Biggest liar are politicians so what is the problem??? They have sent to death people in Iraq with one of the biggest lies in history. Go ahead and fool this mediocre recruiters...

For those that don't still get my points, please read this article on efinancialcareershttp://news.students.efinancialcareers.co.uk/NEWS_ITEM/newsItemId-9818How is someone from a modest or under-privilege background (very few gain access to top universities even with the right grades) supposed to compete when the privilege kids (most kids in top universities are in this category) get more access and preferential treatments.

Simply put, lying is acceptable in banking, but not in professional careers. I'm surprised you think comments on one narrow industry are applicable so broadly.

Sorry, I didn't get that.Are you saying banking is not a professional career?Why is lying okay in only banking?

This thread is getting very dull now and Liar has probably now started his new job with McKinsey/Bain or whoever and has long since forgotten he/she ever posted the comments.....Is it morally acceptable to lie on your CV.... of course it is not. Is it inevitable that people will do it in an ever more competitive world..... of course it is. end...... please

I thought its bad to lie on a CV. Now at my current position after completing an expensive training and passed the certification , I am unable to find a job. Now I have to lie to get pass agencies to an interview. In current UK market with out tweaking the cv you can not get into your first job.

My shortest time in interview was caused by a lie - not mine, but the agency I was using. They told the company that I was happy to relocate and do long assignments outside commuting range. This was not possible for family reasons. It took about five minutes to clear that up, so the interview was over. Mind you, I still had an interesting chat with the interviewer on various other topics after that.

As a head-hunter, I do actually get head-hunted (rec to rec as they call it is a buoyant industry). After 3 years with my first company, I was interviewing with a number of companies. Had a day in London with 4 interviews arranged. In the first interview, I caught sight of the summary written about me by the recruiter, which was the greatest work of fiction since Oliver Twist. I told the interviewer that this candidate looked excellent but that I was not quite at that level yet! The client told me that while I had great skills, they were expanding gradually and only wanted a specific level at this stage. During the remaining interviews on the day, I started by telling the interviewers I had some concerns about the way I was being presented, gave a quick synopsis of the key info (ie presented myself as I would a candidate to a client) and asked if they were happy to continue the interview. I was eventually offered good positions by all the other companies I saw that day.......... although I did tweak the sales figures on the CV a little of course......

This would probably start the debate all over again, but I just cannot resist. Greetings from the world of strategy consultancy!!! Almost 5 months behind my belt and very good feedback so far!P.S. During one of the interviews I actually had the debate with the interviewer about lying on the CV p;-)

Personally I think that, given the very nature of consulting as an industry, lying on the CV and during interview should be a pre-requisite. You should not be allowed in unless you can lie convincingly.

Only a career-5mths to go of looking over your shoulder then...

Liar - There is a story told about William McKinley, before he became President of the United States. He was riding to his congressional office one morning on a tram when a sick woman got on. Unable to find a seat, she clutched an overhead strap next to one of McKinley's political colleagues. This colleague hid behind his newspaper to avoid offering her his seat. McKinley rose, gave her his seat and took her place in the aisle. Years later when he was President this same colleague was recommended for the position of ambassador but McKinley refused. He said, 'If his kindness is of the quality he showed that morning on the tram, I fear what he might do representing us in a foreign land.'Your lie is not the issue, it is a symptom of a deeper problem you have. It is just one of a thousand choices you have made since then. Choices shape character. That character can't be faked, can't be bought, can't be hidden and can't be denied. Others see it even when you do not think it matters. They will make judgments about you in ways you are completely unaware of. And now it has worked for you once...

I agree with House of Cards that even if you don't get found out you will be setting yourself up for trouble. If I had someone working for me who I knew had done something like this I would get rid of them as soon as I could. I could not trust them. Lets hope no one you work with reads this message board eh!!

I have to say I agree with those here saying that in the end most applicants lie on their CV - to a certain extend. But I think, although this is definitely unethical and so on, the problem is the system itself. Consultancy is such a competitive industry with so many applicants, the firms can ask for literally anything - one person will fulfil these requirements. But that doesnt necessarily mean he/she is better than the others. An example: a friend of mine finished his bachelor and applied at consultancies - they turned him down, saying that, since he does not have a lot of extracurricular activities - quite francly - he wouldn't have the necessary interpersonal skills. However, having known this guy for years, I have never met a person being stronger on emotional intelligence, empathy, social competence and any either fancy phrases you could think of. But he simply enjoyed more going to the gym rather than participating in these associations/teamsports, etc. Hence, he added some extracurricular stuff, and ta-da: he got several interviews and finally job-offers.The point is as was mentioned before: It is OK to "twist the truth" a bit - as long as you can deliver, as sometimes your CV simply is not a perfect reflection of who you are.

I have never lied on my CV. I have always told the truth to everyone I have ever met and am completely honest about my shortcomings as well as strengths. I got married and was happy for a while. I always told my wife when she looked fat, when her new hairdo was awful and when she was annoying me so much that I wanted to punch her (I did not, of course - I am not violent). I always told her also that I loved her but she seemed to focus on the weight/hairdo/irritation related comments rather than my love for her. We had a baby who was ver nice but pretty ugly. I was very careful to be honest about this also. I joined a football team and was a very good player. I made sure that I told the referee when I committed a hand-ball in the penalty area one day. The opposing player scored the penalty and we lost the match. I called the police in my home town to inform them that I had accidentally parked in a diabled parking space and had been speeding on the motorway the previous day. I also told the truth on my CV about the fact that I had cheated in some of my coursework at university by not following the referencing rules - effectively I had stolen some of the information on page 56 of the dissertation as I had fogotten to include the source in the bibliography.I am now divorced, unemployed and have no friends but at least I have my dignity. I know that I am honest and the world will respect me for that .... now where is that vodka bottle - only had 3 today so far.....

My friend lied and got into Oxford!

Lying is when you tell someone something that is not true. Not witholding information. Hence the second but last posters diatribe falls a little short.~They should teach Logical thinking in schools.~

I think I'm in a good position to comment on this, as in my previous job I was a manager[1] leading[2] a small team of specialist consultants[3]. I was responsible for recruiting[4] key personnel[5] to the team so I have substantial recruitment expertise[6].In all seriousness, I have done a fair bit of recruiting of analyst/consultant-level positions, and I think it's fair to say that most people enhance their CV, but if you're a half-way decent interviewer it's pretty easy to tell if someone is grossly exaggerating their experience and abilities and don't actually have the skills for the job.I myself have always been scrupulously honest on my CV. Well, usually. [7][1] consultant[2]I'd been there the longest and I was the oldest[3] inexperienced graduates[4] I sat in on first-round interviews[5] see [3][6] I went on a course once[7] well, occasionally

Expat,Brilliant post.Took me a few seconds to get it. I initially thought what is this gibberish until it clicked.

LOL, he sounds like the guy I interviewed last week.I don't know about you guys, but invariably I find that it's the older ones (who should know better!) that tend to bullsh1t the most about their accomplishments.Why is it that people use phrases like "worked at the most senior levels to dramatically reduce costs for a major industry leader" on their CV when a simple, factual comment like "provided recommendations which are expected to reduce the running costs of the head office of a stationery company by £250K" would do them so much more justice? Do they not realise that they immediately label themselves as bullsh1tters by using hyped-up phrases?On a related note, does anyone know of any good blogs/articles about bullsh1t in recruitment processes? Especially stuff about how companies word job ads these days (you know the kind of stuff I'm on about... e.g. Sunday newspaper supplements where so many companies seems to have unrealistic expectations of the kind of person they are going to recruit, whilst at the same time advertising an undefined yet "excellent" salary and calling theirselves an "industry leader" just like every other company in the same supplement).

well done expat, you're hired!