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Why company & salary don't matter...
 
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Why company & salary don't matter...

 
forum comment
#0 Why company & salary don't matter...
 
Village Idiot
22.05.7 00:00
 
A lot of the people who come to this website ask about starting salaries, or which company is the best, or which company they should join. For the sake of argument, I’m going to throw this into the mix:It simply doesn’t matter.Your first career is your stepping stone onto the corporate ladder. As my other post (Thread: 29151) will demonstrate very clearly, the first few years you spend working in any consultancy are likely to be pretty crap. You’ll spend a lot of time doing analysis in Excel and creating presentations in Powerpoint. You’ll spend time facilitating workshops, but generally only in the sticking-stuff-on-the-wall-with-Bluetac and capturing-stuff-on-a-flipchart sort of way.You’ll get some face time with the senior managers and partners in your firm, but generally the information flow will be one way. You’ll be learning a huge amount all the time from people who generally know what they’re doing. You might meet some interesting clients, but you’ll never be allowed to spend much time with them unsupervised, lest you say something stupid.When projects over-run, you’ll be called on to work until midnight, long after your more senior colleagues have gone home. No matter what you think now, £35K isn’t much money in London. So your standard of life for the first few years is not going to be a jet-setting one.What does all of this mean?It means a few things. First, you really should disregard salary as a factor in which job you decide to take. Your salary is likely to shoot up a lot after your first 2-3 years in consulting, when you’ve learned enough that you’re genuinely useful as an advisor (rather than someone who’s pretty clever but doesn’t understand a great deal about how big business works).Second, you should realise that any one of the big consultancies is a pretty good place to cut your teeth. When you take your second job (and you *should* by all means move after your first three years if you want to secure your promotion and a much bigger salary), your second employer will basically want to see that you’ve had a good training experience. Any medium- and large- sized consultancy will offer this. With a few notable exceptions (MBBB, who are very much first among equals), the other big consultancies have equal credibility on your CV.Third, being at the bottom of the consulting tree is pretty rubbish no matter where you are. We’ve all gone through it in our time, and yes, life does get better as you move up the tree. But a lot of the ‘quality of life’ questions that get asked here really don’t apply to graduate positions, because you’re more likely than your more senior colleagues to get stuck with the crappy jobs that erode quality of life.Moral of the story? Don’t get too hung up about which consultancy you choose, because they’re all about the same at graduate level. They’ll all provide you with the right foundations for building the rest of your consulting career. Follow your gut instinct, and go to the one you like best, not the one that’s done the best job of brainwashing the graduates with their recruitment materials and word-of-mouth hype.
 
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#0 RE: Why company & salary don't matter...
 
Mike Control
22.05.7 00:00
 
You are a busy little bee today VI.But a good post. Now, if only this forum could facilitate stickys….
 
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#0 RE: RE: Why company & salary don't matter...
 
Village Idiot
22.05.7 00:00
 
<----- Glue Sale
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Me
23.05.7 00:00
 
Pretty much in agreement, but...At Capgemini at least I have seen grads prove themselves, get given huge responsibilty, and luckily in this case also get a promotion soon after. (the promotion bit I think was quite rare but the rest is certainly there if you wish to have it).As for company name, there&apos;s different tiers of copmany. Within a tier it doesn&apos;t matter which company you go to. So Deloitte, KPMG, EY and Accenture are all 1st tier in my opinion (based on how good they would look on your cv).
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Nick
23.05.7 00:00
 
I would like to add another point to VI&apos;s very pointed and well reasoned rant - all the commotion about if you&apos;re not in MBBB then you&apos;re not in (strategy) consulting. Every graduate seems to view MBBB as the be all and end all. Yet in my experience when most consultants get tired of this game and decide to move to industry, while MBBB may open certain doors where other alumni have gone before, the majority of industry recruiters (assuming they haven&apos;t had a particularly bad experience using a firm!) have no idea why/how/if these firms are any better than say having Deloitte on your CV - it is just as well known, and so it is the quality of work and character that you can demonstrate which is important....queue comments that I&apos;m bitter for not getting into MBBB, yet you would be wrong!
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Time wasating troll.
23.05.7 00:00
 
Nick,Interesting point, fairly well made. Just one small point - I noticed a minor error. I think you meant to use the word "cue" rather than "queue".Otherwise, keep up the good work.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Ned Flanders
23.05.7 00:00
 
Hi,I think VI&apos;s has hit the nail with this post and I think it gives some good grounding to the numerous posts asking for salary rankings. However, I slightly disagree with placing salaries and companies on the same level. Whilst I agree that salaries should not be something that influences your first job (2/3K more or less are not a helpful parameters for measuring a job at this stage), I think the company choice is a lot more important. I think a good first company is an important watershed between your education and your professional career. A good graduate scheme will give the basic skills (although I agree with VI that the &apos;actual&apos; work will probably be very similar wherever you end up), and most of all, it gives you more options when the day comes to move on. As Nick points out, Deloitte might put you in a better position than MBBB if you want to move into certain industries and as most graduates don&apos;t have a clear idea what their long term objectives are, a good tier 1/2 MC might actually work out better than MBBB. Having said all that, to drum up too much certain firms over others is simply a waste of time. If all these posts are from people that hold more than one offer (which I doubt) then well done: look at the companies and not the salaries before you choose and most of all follow your gut feeling! PS: for all the salary minded graduates, Aldi seems to be offering 37K + and Audi for what I think is a graduate scheme. Enjoy!http://www.graduate-jobs.com/gj/gjs/js011.jsp?jobId=13659
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
longer term view
23.05.7 00:00
 
I still maintain that the best approach to consulting is to get some real experience first, do an MBA and get your time in at post MBA level. This seems to be the great divide a lot of the time. As I see it the equation is this:Age:22 - graduate 22-26 work for a bank/FMCG/Telco/oil and gas 26-27 MBA from a top school28-32 post MBA MBBB experience33 + world is your oyseter
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
longert term view
23.05.7 00:00
 
obviously I can&apos;t spell well enough to go down that route myself but it is good in theory
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
The Senior Vice President
23.05.7 00:00
 
I have mixed views about this. In today&apos;s climate of job insecurity and rising house prices, you have to grab what you can when you can. After all, what use is prestige if the £££ don&apos;t follow? For some kid earning £28K a year, an extra £5K is the difference between staying in rented accommodation versus paying off his student debts and getting a deposit together for a house. In a world where less is becoming certain every day, why chase the carrot on the end of the stick if it&apos;s by no means guaranteed you&apos;ll ever actually get it? My advice is apply the 80-20 rule - get a decent job that pays well, but don&apos;t worry too much about being in the top 10-20% because the sacrifices usually aren&apos;t worth it.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Nick
23.05.7 00:00
 
longer term view,In essence I agree with you - I find that many of the best young consultants I have worked with have got some (although not too much to the point where they think they already have the answer) other experience before entering consulting.The only problem is that in reality few graduates are going to be able to plan their future that far ahead. If they know they want to get into consulting then they will just go for it. Rather is it because the majority of grads aren&apos;t entirely sure that they want to do consulting that they end up chasing the other benefits i.e. the highest pay? Just a thought...
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Vanilla and cream
23.05.7 00:00
 
This is a load of rubbish. I have three years experience - am 25 and graduated from a top 10 uni - not oxbridge. Started first year in consulting - then switched to finance. My 1st year salary was 40k2nd year 85k3 year 115kand if i get promoted to associate i will be on 150k next year. if you think that is not important youre missing some marbles.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Not a consultant
23.05.7 00:00
 
Congrats. Although I wouldn&apos;t have thought that was the norm?
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
Vanilla and Cream
23.05.7 00:00
 
It is in many areas of finance - not just IB / M&A. And i am not trying to brag - but the people that claim that salary doesnt matter at all are lying. How much it matters is personal.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
londonkiddo
27.05.7 00:00
 
Here we go again...the old story of "I&apos;m only 12 years old but earning two hundred billion pounds a day, compared to you poor consultants".It is a lie. What the hell does working in "Finance" mean anyway? Utter horsesh1t I say. I&apos;m calling it.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
overview
27.05.7 00:00
 
It is an important subject. I find that a lot of the banking types are doing very well at the moment but this is a market which ebbs and flows alarmingly. People burn out early, work obscene hours and gradually watch their pleasant personalities eroded in favour of an obsession with money and a complete inability to hold a conversation on any other subject other than themselves and "mine is bigger than yours" etc. My message is "cash in now because you never know what is round the corner". Also, do not waste your money eating caviar off the breasts of a stripper. You may only be earning that kind of money for a relatively short period of time.It is the age old conundrum. I do not earn a fortune but I am not a stranger to my wife and child. We get stressed over money but not over our lives if you follow..... and now to the point I actually intended to make when I started this irrelevant message.... if a few thousand on salary is the difference between buying and renting, it could well be that the 5k extra now is actually worth 10 times that down the line. Nothing is guaranteed. all markets crash or dip from time to time and if money is important to you, you have to go for the best package now. The only possible exception is when you are going through a training/academic programme which directly leads to employment at the end.One last point.... working conditions for consultants now are significantly better than they have been for years. Consulting experience looks very good on the CV.
 
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#0 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
NEW TO MC!
28.05.7 00:00
 
Hey,Everyone is talking about these Tier 1/2 firms and MBBB... sorry but how do u know which firms are in which tier and are respectable or will look good on ur CV?... I have had 3 years experience in another finance job and thinking about a move in to consultancy so obviously the consultancy I move into is important... how can i know it is a decent firm which will be good for progression and good on the CV? ...
 
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#0 RE: Why company & salary don&apos;t matter...
 
KITT
29.05.7 00:00
 
I love you Village Idiot
 
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