Hi all,I just graduated with a research master degree from Imperial, and got very lost at the moment: my first degree, which is BA in natural science at Cambridge, was 2.2. Now the graduate schemes all require 2.1 min, and I really wonder if I have any chance of getting considered if I send out my CV still. If they screen out any 2.2 straight away then I do not need to waste the time on applying them.What should I do if I really want to get into consultancy finally?Many thanks for any suggestions or comments. -steve

Apply for small firms where the person reviewing your CV is smart enough to realise that a 2.2 in science from Cambridge is better than a First in Masturbation Studies from the University of North Scunthorpe.

Let's not pretend that most firms would look at either.

Do the usual Oxbridge thing and convert it to an MA

I mean I don't think there is any chance for me on the graduate schemes, I just wonder if there is any career path that leads to consultancy finally (I was thinking about doing a PhD and then into the industry, but I find it hard to make the decision). Also, thanks for your suggestions on small firms, so do I just search for "small consultancy firms in uk" on google and apply for them all? -steve

Do you think there is a way to consultancy if I work in other industries first? (FMCG, chemical/pharmaceutical companies...the top ones will still require a 2.1 though) If so, what positions do you think is the most relevant?many thanks for pointing out the truth-steve

Hi, if you go into industry and do a few years there and do well, you could go into consultancy probably with the big 4 and definitely with Accenture. If you apply for such companies now the automatic script will detect the 2:2 and reject you.

thanks Frio, so does that mean I do not get a chance in the industry either? Then I cannot think of any place I can apply to, seriously worrying about finding a job now

Small firms, steve. Small firms in the regions.

thanks indeed, BEP. i thought hope had all gone the moment i got the 2.2.

It's a 2.2 in a proper subject from Cambridge, dude. Don't beat yourself up, you're still at the top of the tree.

Yeah, don't beat yourself up. How were your A-Level results? You can get into a decent grad scheme in industry with a 2:2. I might be wrong but big 4 + Accenture probably want a 2:1.

Hi Steve ,Quick answer is that I think BEP provides you with the best way forward - go back to Cambridge and get your degree turned into an MA.This may give you the best of both worlds, you get an additional bit of qualification on your belt from a top University and the 2:2 put in the back burner. An MA from Cambridge is pretty good going.At the moment, Johnny Thicky who went to PolyTechy R Us with a 2:1 in Photography will get further than you in the automated system going through CVs nowadays.Best of luck, hope it works out for you and have a think.

Or don't go via the machine.. people who don't "match" on paper, need to find other ways of getting in..Network, build relationships, sell yourself etc.

Sorry to burst the bubble but I don't think the MA conversion trick really works..and I say that having converted my own from Oxford. What would he then put on this CV? Two MAs but no BA? They are bound to ask for further questions or ask why the MA was over 3 years... I think better to network, target smaller firms where they will take a longer look at you and what you can bring to the table, rather than having your CV analysed by a computer in Manila - or alternatively go into industry as others suggested. A 2.2 from Cambridge is, as BEP quite rightly says, is better than a degree at other Unis. Except Oxford, obviously :) Good luck!

That is a boxing match that I would pay for;Steve Cambridge vs Arthur OxfordI reckon Oxford might win it, he feels a bit more earthy and prepared to do some dirty eye gouging tricks compared to squeaky clean CambridgeBut yes, you are off course right. He should still try the "networking" side of things. However, we all know that for grad schemes this doesnt work that well for the biggies, they all put you through their base requirements, 2:1 being one of them.I still think the MA conversion is a good option for Stevo. The guy is obviously bright and the 2:2 is a stumbling block in general for the first few years of job hunting.What type of work are you looking to do Steve? Where do you want to go career wise? Plenty of the boys here should be able to provide some guidance

Ha! The only boxing I do is re-aligning them in PowerPoint. Steve - one option is Pwc's scheme. There is a specific option to apply with a 2.2, not just with extenuating circumstances but also if you excelled in something else at uni - e.g. extra curricular. May be an option for you to consider....Google "PwC Inspired Talent"

[quote]It's a 2.2 in a proper subject from Cambridge, dude. Don't beat yourself up, you're still at the top of the tree.[/quote]originally i put down Class II in my CV and many companies called to confirm whether it was a 2.1 OR 2.2, so I tell the truth, and the answer is always "well we might take the master degree into account and come back to you later" but they never come back with good news..

[quote]Yeah, don't beat yourself up. How were your A-Level results? You can get into a decent grad scheme in industry with a 2:2. I might be wrong but big 4 + Accenture probably want a 2:1.[/quote] I did quite a lot of A-Levels, Biology, chemistry, further math, math, physics,and got A*A*ABI was a biology student first, and then in the third year i decided to do chemistry, which might be a silly decision

[quote]That is a boxing match that I would pay for;Steve Cambridge vs Arthur OxfordI reckon Oxford might win it, he feels a bit more earthy and prepared to do some dirty eye gouging tricks compared to squeaky clean CambridgeBut yes, you are off course right. He should still try the "networking" side of things. However, we all know that for grad schemes this doesnt work that well for the biggies, they all put you through their base requirements, 2:1 being one of them.I still think the MA conversion is a good option for Stevo. The guy is obviously bright and the 2:2 is a stumbling block in general for the first few years of job hunting.What type of work are you looking to do Steve? Where do you want to go career wise? Plenty of the boys here should be able to provide some guidance[/quote]I did not do well in biology but I thought it was my only true love(high school). In the third year I suddenly changed my mind and did chemistry. My most work experience was research and data analysis, so i think my choice of first career is quite limited to research and development. But I took an environment related subject for the master degree at Imperial, and I want to do environment consultancy. I know that many environment engineering graduates are much more competitive, but I think there is a way to do environment consultancy finally, may be I should do a related degree first?

[quote]Ha! The only boxing I do is re-aligning them in PowerPoint. Steve - one option is Pwc's scheme. There is a specific option to apply with a 2.2, not just with extenuating circumstances but also if you excelled in something else at uni - e.g. extra curricular. May be an option for you to consider....Google "PwC Inspired Talent"[/quote]Oh I was not bold enough to apply for PwC, but I did apply for the other three, and got rejected. I saw hope in Deloitte's because its academic requirement is "If you have achieved a 2:2 at university and 340 UCAS points please tick the box on the application form that asks them to confirm they have a 2:1." but still, they rejected me without a phone call.when all the other natural science people are looking for interns in the bank and whatever professional services I was doing summer research quite happily...a big mistake, but at that time i thought i would go on to do research

If you are applying online i.e. most places these days, in the bit where it asks if you have any extenuating circumstances, *fill that bit in*.It means your application will actually get read by someone rather than automatically filtered, and could improve your chances of at least getting a look in.This assumes you have extenuating circumstances that you can back up with evidence.

If you are applying online i.e. most places these days, in the bit where it asks if you have any extenuating circumstances, *fill that bit in*.It means your application will actually get read by someone rather than automatically filtered, and could improve your chances of at least getting a look in.This assumes you have extenuating circumstances that you can back up with evidence.

Apply for companies where your application will be looked at by a real person who has a brain.You've got a degree in a hard subject, from Cambridge University FFS! AND a masters from Imperial!Let's just be clear - that makes you pretty F-ing desirable as far as employees goes, all other things being equal.Just because some script cobbled together in Manila can't determine your potential value to a company, that doesn't mean a real person sitting out there in the regions won't.Yes, some companies won't accept anything less than a candidate with 2 PhDs, an Ivy league MBA and three first class hons BAs plus 40 years experience doing exactly the same job as they're applying for, and some will go "DUH DUH DUHHHH we needs a 2.1 DUHHH!!!" but some "real people" really do see a CV like yours and think "Hmm... Cambridge... Science... Imperial... Masters... Awesome A-levels... INTERVIEW HIM!"So, bypass the robots. Apply to real people who will read your CV. That probably means applying to small companies. And small companies are often great places to work, by the way. At small companies you're often more than just a 2.1 in sector 7G... you might actually feel valued as a person.

You may enjoy a smaller company. I have worked for both (large 100,000 people plus and small ish 1,000 people firm)Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. BEP or Mars - might be worthwhile naming some of the smaller Consultancies that you are thinking of? Places like BCS?

Hehe, when I say small, I mean microscopic compared to Big 4 standards. As in companies with fewer than 50 staff. Even companies with a dozen staff can be brilliant places to work. I'll try and locate a list or directory or something. Small companies might not have huge skyscraper offices and fancy brand names, but we often have nice people with real personalities as well as interesting work and a [i]real[/i] work-life balance...

One can get into Cambridge with A*A*AB ? I live and learn.2.2 from Cambridge is patently not superior to a degree of whatever class from whatever university. It seems to be a bizarre but common misconception of Oxford and Cambridge graduates that students are somehow perfectly "sorted " and that the least able student at either of these is better than the most able at whatever happens to be the next best university.As a hirer I look for someone who stands out, and yes, with a bit of competitive spirit, not someone who turned in a lower quartile performance, even in an elite environment.

No need to feel threatened, this isn't a weeing contest, we're just saying that steve here has a huge amount to offer and be proud of and shouldn't be despondent! :-)

I agree BEP,DCF comments smells of a "nearly man".Steve - the cruts of it is that with only a 2:2 you will need to have a compelling argument on your extra curricular activities. You better have helped a bunch of kids to the moon or created in your research the replacement for gasoline.2:2 with little or minimal outstanding external stuff will get you nowhere very quickly.I am in the same boat as BEP, we are assuming that yes you only got a 2:2 but you have excellent A Levels (confirming you are a smart cookie) and some solid extra curricular which will back you up. If it isn't there then you will have an issue trying to get in anywhere... people will assume same as DCF

Hi BEPDo you think the firms mentioned in the guide represent these smaller firms?http://news.top-consultant.com/guide_to_consulting_firms.aspx

I was in a slightly different position from you when I finished University. I got a 2:1 from Exeter in Chemistry but had poor A-Level results. I didn’t have a good reason for underachieving at A-Level – basically I didn’t do a lot of work and concentrated on other things. I had no idea employers would put as much emphasis on A-Level results. I got rejected from the application process for a bunch of graduate schemes due to an automatic filter. In the end I managed to get a recruiters details for a leading UK defense firm, wrote him a letter basically stating that I hadn’t performed to my best ability at A-Level but had tried to put that right at Uni – 2:1 and I took extra modules in the areas I didn’t do well at in A-Level. I got a D in maths at A-Level but 75% in the course 1st year maths students at Exeter take. He called me and made me promise I wouldn’t mention my A-Level results in the assessment centre. I got through the assessment centre and interviewed with a Commercial Director. He told me he was worried about my maths result at A-Level as he’d want me to do excels and various bits of number crunching, I was able to point to how I’d tried to put that right at Uni. I moved to Accenture 4 years ago and now no-one gives a damn about my bloody A-Level results – apart from me. It’s my only academic failing and I’m not proud of it as I know I could have done much better. I had a great time in industry and I learnt genuine deep, SME, skills in my area which have served me very well in my consulting career. Moral of the story? Network, work hard to find out who the decision makers are, try to talk to them and don’t be afraid to play the long game. Be honest about any weaknesses that potential employers may perceive and have a solid story to a) explain why it happened and b) what you’ve done to mitigate the perceived failing – i.e. why it won’t be a problem for them.

DCF does make a good point - a 2.2 is just that, regardless of where it was earned. Unfortunately steve015 you didn't cover yourself in glory with that. That notwithstanding you clearly have enormous potential.Small firms, as Bushy pointed out, could be one route. The problem here is that you wont get the training and brand catapult into a consulting career you want - starting there will just look like the proverbial 'consulting 2.2' option.Networking is your no 1 option by some margin. Perhaps try some of the specialist firms in the Life Sciences which could look more favourably on your education subjects. You need to be engaging people senior enough to sponsor you in. It will only take one person to believe in you and you're in.

I second that. Get.your break and then a few.years down the line...For all my earlier comments, thinking someone's academic results from years ago are still relevant strikes me as even dafter.I have come across plenty of good people in Big 4 firms who would not have made it in through the grad scheme but proved themselves in work and are thriving while many of those grads have fallen by the waysideI just can't be doing with "a 2.2 from Cambridge is still brilliant" - it isn't - or "a 2.2 from Cambridge is better thana 1st in cup cake design and manufacture from London Met" - which isn't a comparison that will ever be made.

To further DCF's point, surely the reason for looking at academic achievement is as much about gauging a person's drive/ambition as it is about measuring their knowledge of particular subjects (if not more).A very small % of the work consultants are asked to do requires a brilliant mind. Once you assume a minimum grasp of logic, numbers and people skills, it's the will to learn and push oneself that tends to set people apart. A 2:2 from Oxbridge suggests to me that you were [i]lucky[/i] enough to have the upbringing/circumstance (discipline and encouragement) and genetics required to get you good A-levels (and hence a place among the academic elite), but you perhaps settle for a place among the lowest common denominators of those with your ability. A First from a lesser institution at least suggests you push yourself to do your best with the cards that life has dealt you.That said, this is all for nothing given that firms have a large crop of intellectually capable high achievers to choose from...

I've enjoyed this one. Interesting to see everyone's thoughts. Plus it has made me remember how damn important getting 2:1 + is!Life is so competitive now, they say we have an ageing population but the grad schemes just seem to have more and more people applying for them. I suppose the EU helps as you get a bucket load of EU applicants too.