Has anyone else noticed the change of attitude from the grads/associates/analysts lately?

Elaborate...?

[quote]Has anyone else noticed the change of attitude from the grads/associates/analysts lately?[/quote]I presume you mean the increase in self confidence and lack of interest in doing "menial" tasks and wanting to talk to CEOs/CFOs/CIOs on day one?If that's what you mean, then yes, I was talking about it earlier todat with some colleageues, those attitudes seem to get stronger and more pronounced each year

Indeed that.So my thoughts (archaic as they are): they see a lot on instant gain on TV (Pop Idol, Fame Academy), in the press (Yahoo! founders billionaires and got there quickly) and they expect the same from their everyday lives.Thoughts?

Alternatively they struggle to understand why they have been to university in order to do menial sh*tty tasks they could have done when they were 16 years old?Don't get me wrong, I see both points of view.The issue also lies in the way consulting houses recruit i.e promise the world and more. Set expectations and maybe you will get the grads who are happy to do the menial tasks. Companies should not paint an amazing picture they cannot deliver and then expect all the grads to be happy. It's as simple as that.

I remember being on a training course where we were told that we were "masters of the universe". We were all super high achievers and now had started our career which would have a formidable impact on the world.And what did most of us spend our time doing in the first year? Gathering obscure bits of data about various pointless thugs from 10 years ago so that somebody earnin. 3 times as much a us coul turn it into a graph. Yeah, real big impact, that.I can totally understand why kids leaving university with £40k of debt (or £100k if they did an MBA) get so upset when they're expected to do rubbish that they could have done when they were 16 years old. So much for MCs being "masters of the universe". Even useless GPs get paid twice as much as most MCs do these days. Plus they have none of the stress.

+1......spot on once again Bushy

[quote]Indeed that.So my thoughts (archaic as they are): they see a lot on instant gain on TV (Pop Idol, Fame Academy), iThoughts?[/quote]SmithyThink you are being archaic, pop idol (2003) and Fame Academy (also 2003) although a Comedy relief special was aired in 2007 means graduates watching them as an influence would be in their 30's by now, even I'd be p****d off doing menial stuff in my 30's. Oh I am ! and 30's sadly is now also stretching it !What have you been watching for last 11 years ? Let me guess working 60+hours a week chasing VP and spending time looking back at golden age of TV in 2003DC

What?Now you're also going to tell me that I should ditch the racket that is this modern swing music too?! I have only JUST managed to work out how to fit the gramophone and my clothes into one suitcase.On another note, don't get me wrong, I see the grads' point of view - after all I was in the same position. However:1) Some of them CAN'T do the menial tasks well enough2) Everyone goes through this - just like we weren't born adult-sized, everyone has to go up from "making ppt slides" to something more meaningfulIt's the way they go about things that gets me. Yes it's dull, we all have to do dull work sometimes, but do you not just get on with it and try your best...?

[quote]Alternatively they struggle to understand why they have been to university in order to do menial sh*tty tasks they could have done when they were 16 years old?[/quote]Agreed, I guess there's certainly some expectation setting needed, however from my point of view when I'm working with a new graduate/consultant, or someone still on our grad scheme, my thought process tends to be asking them to do some of the slightly more boring tasks just to make sure their skills are up to scratch (attention to detail, formatting etc) which I know is boring and basic, but I pick up many many errors. When I know they can produce decent documents/work I'm more happy to loosen the reigns and allow them to take on more interesting work.Interested to hear different approaches though!

While attention to detail (typos, triple-checking excel formulae, etc) and ppt formatting are important skills, they are not necessarily stepping stones to being good at the more 'meaningful' stuff (problem solving, idea generation). You can have a flair for the latter, while being terrible at the former.I prefer to give new people more interesting stuff to work on which is either nice-to-have or not time-sentisitve. If they stuff up, you can either do without it or you have time to fix it.

* sensitiveOr was the irony about attention to detail intentional?

[quote]* sensitiveOr was the irony about attention to detail intentional?[/quote]Or, maybe he was thrown in to the interesting stuff from day one, bypassing the humdrum attention to detail stuff...He has flair in idea generation, but is terrible at attention to detail! It makes sense now...

Both wrong: genuine typo, and I'm no good at idea generation.I simply have more important things to invest my time in than the quality of my output on an anonymous geek forum.

Smithy, in the interests of disclosure, would you care to share how old you are? I'm guessing not a day past 26

I am happy to say that I am a little older.

I was joking... Nice bite though.

ok. "good banter" then... I guess?PatrickMcIntyre, didn't you come on here not so long ago telling us you are an A-level student looking to get into consulting after Uni? I remember because the next day you were on another thread giving someone career advice, and have contributed your pearls of wisdom to almost every thread I've read here in the last couple of months.Shouldn't you be out there sleeping with a different girl (or several) each week and taking up new sports (or new mind-altering substances), while you still have the stamina (for both the girls and the sports)?You'll have plenty of time for all this malarkey for when you're growing bald and fat, during coffee breaks in your mundane office job, like the rest of us.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/generation-y-unhappy_b_3930620.html

Sadly Dan your lack of attention to detail hinders you again, I'm actually at University - I joined this forum as a Uni student too. I never have been an 'A level student' either, given that I'm from Scotland. Good effort though.The second point I'd pick on is the one where you claim I gave career advice... Quick question Dan, did I give specific advice about consultancy (like I feel you're implying)? Or did I give general advice regarding employment based on seven years relevant work experience (to the points I addressed)? My word, keep up Dan the man. And please don't make assumptions.Of course, if it's frowned upon to give relevant advice to people asking a forum full or strangers fairly simple questions, I can always stop. Heaven forbid forum users contribute.Finally, don't you worry about my stamina sir, I find time to squeeze in the girls and sports whilst enlightening people with my 'pearls of wisdom' on here. Your concern is much appreciated though.

Patrick,If you want to work in MC, you must be able to handle criticism. Even if it was unwarranted. Many a time, you will find yourself at the receiving end of a tongue-lashing from a client. No fault of yours. But it's something to bear in mind.Life is 90% about how you react to things.

Or to translate into the language of the youth:Patrick, stop acting like a pen1s. In the real world, "banter" doesn't get you anywhere and "bites" will get you fired.

[quote]Shouldn't you be out there sleeping with a different girl (or several) each week and taking up new sports (or new mind-altering substances), while you still have the stamina (for both the girls and the sports)?You'll have plenty of time for all this malarkey for when you're growing bald and fat, during coffee breaks in your mundane office job, like the rest of us.[/quote]This is a perfect example of why this post was started in the first place. If this is the advice students/graduates get from those who are meant to be older and wiser then pity help us. No wonder there is such a division between generations. Times change and so do ambitions. Adaptability should be embraced not a mindset still clearly stuck in the '70s...

Patrick, forgive me for trying to lighten the tone with a bit of good old-fashioned ad hominem. Clearly, poking fun at myself didn't work for you...To be fair, as one of the old students whom everyone thinks is a bit weird, you probably don't get much in the way of banter from the chinese exchange students you hang around with. Is the "don't make assumptions" motto a proverb you got from them? (I'm doing it again by the way)Tacitus, are you suggesting the new generation of students are breaking from 100k+ years of evolutionary force and foregoing their interest in recreational seed spreading and competition?If it's online to show off their pristine synthax, impeccable spelling and razor-sharp wit to their anonymous acquaintances that you think today's students should be going (with Patrick), then I pity today's students.

No Dan, I am stating that students nowadays are far more focused career wise than say 20-30 years ago whilst at university. Subsequently, believe it or not, this means focusing on work a lot more than going out and getting hammered. I would be pretty damn surprised if you genuinely believe that mindsets have not changed in various directions over the past 100 years.I'm sure I don't need to preach this to you as you are clearly older and therefore much wiser than I.

Clearly. And I am not advocating neglecting studies. You'll have to agree that being on here trying and failing to be funny at every opportunity will not get you better grades. We're therefore talking about what else Patrick and you should be doing for free-time activities. Another word of wisdom on the point of getting hammered by the way. Be careful of mixing that one with the pursuit of women: nothing will compound a stinging hangover like a dose of coyote ugly waking up beside you. Mixing with sports is advisable, however; that's where you'll find the fitties!Forgive me for trying to relive some vicarious nostalgia through you little rascals!

[quote]Patrick,If you want to work in MC, you must be able to handle criticism. Even if it was unwarranted. Many a time, you will find yourself at the receiving end of a tongue-lashing from a client. No fault of yours. But it's something to bear in mind.Life is 90% about how you react to things.[/quote]Thanks Camster, top advice there, and advice I agree with completely. Of course had Dan been a client our conversation would have been a lot different - I think context is important.An interesting point raised though - I did join this forum to find out more about MC but I only really see the negatives about the industry on here sadly. Maybe it's warranted, maybe it's just banter? Who knows, but it would be refreshing to read about the good things too! I suppose that's just the internet though, like reviews - you never jump online to tell everyone how good your 1.0 Corsa is on road tax, but are more than happy to tell us it drinks fuel like a 1.4! In other news, I think I agree fully with Tacitus in this threadDan the man - I'd like to think we were cool... Despite my Chinese proverbs.

[quote]No Dan, I am stating that students nowadays are far more focused career wise than say 20-30 years ago whilst at university. Subsequently, believe it or not, this means focusing on work a lot more than going out and getting hammered. I would be pretty damn surprised if you genuinely believe that mindsets have not changed in various directions over the past 100 years.I'm sure I don't need to preach this to you as you are clearly older and therefore much wiser than I.[/quote]Not at all true. In fact, I'd say that students "20+ years ago" - the category I fall into - are way more in tune. Why I say this? Back then, there was no Internet. So, we did research the old way, networking the old way, etc. We had to put is so much more effort. This is also how we honed our soft skills.We (as in my close group of friends) all had summer internships, from the first year itself. Patrick, have you sorted yourself out for an internship? If yes, brilliant. If no, please advise why not and if you need help securing an internship. If I were you, this would be a reason to join and be active in such a forum.

Camster - I like your posts but this time we shall have to agree to disagree. I'm not entirely convinced that the way you did things differently 20 years ago has anything to do with whether students were more career focused or not. Also, just to spice things up a little more - maybe the older generation should have been more in tune with how not to send the economy into ruin rather than 'honing soft skills the hard way' and subsequently letting the more youthful generation pick up the pieces? Heh heh ;)

"I am stating that students nowadays are far more focused career wise than say 20-30 years ago whilst at university."My friend, while bold unsubstantiated 'statements' like that might earn you nods of approval in the classroom, in the real world, the bigger the statement, the better the evidence required. So far you've given us nothing. So if I were Camster, I would not be so willing to 'agree' to disagree.On the contrary, 20-30 years ago:[list][*]going to Uni was genuinely reserved for the academic elite. Now every tom, dick and harry has got a degree. As Kanye West tells us, you need a degree to work in the gap.[*]you tended to go on to work in the same area as your studies. degree choice is becoming extremely irrelevant when it comes to future career possibilities (outside the 'real' professions, of course: medicine, etc.)[*]almost none of the distractions from career focus which are available to today's students even existed: easy travel (going to work in a beach resort somewhere for the summer, computer gaming, general recreational online stuff, Sky TV, choice of modern sports facilities, liberal attitudes to s3x, many types of drugs, I could go on and on... [*]prob more stuff that hasn't occurred to me after 30 seconds of consideration[/list]And those of you who are still extremely career-focused really need to chill out. You'll understand in why 10-20 years when you've figured out what really matters in life.

PS: if your idea of 'spice' is a jibe about the causes and long-term consequences of a financial crisis, you've probably got a long way to go on your journey to fulfillment.

[quote]Patrick, have you sorted yourself out for an internship? If yes, brilliant. If no, please advise why not and if you need help securing an internship. If I were you, this would be a reason to join and be active in such a forum. [/quote]Again Camster, sensible chat. Unfortunately I'm very limited as to where I can apply for internships - there are a few barriers in my way. The primary one being that most places require you to be a third year student (I'm from Scotland where a degree is 4 years long ergo third year is our penultimate year), I'm not quite there yet. That said, I have actively emailed and called boutique firms to no avail, which is unfortunate and quite sad - and I haven't limited my options to MCs either. I was down in London last year interviewing with PageGroup recruitment consultants for an internship, but my wee gran passed away and unfortunately the timing wasn't perfect. I'm still in touch with the graduate/internship recruiter there who's asked me to get in touch this year though.If I'm honest, my main reason for joining this forum was to get a feel for the industry - to fully understand what an MC does and what I could expect from a 'real world' perspective. I've been active because the discussion has been good and the banter suits me. I'm struggling to see how I could secure even a phone call via this forum though - mostly everyone's anonymous and have nothing but war stories for students! With regards to help securing internship, I've read all the articles, the forum posts and listened to my older, wiser contacts - then tried, and will continue to do so, particularly in my penultimate year. Who'd have thought the absolute willingness to work yourself to the bone for free with total flexibility would have been so difficult to achieve?Of course I'd be grateful for any help or advice you can offer here - I'm always looking for ways to improve/new ideas. I don't know how deep your advice can go, but if you need to know my background (i.e. those 'other barriers' I was talking about) in order to advise, I'd be more than happy to email you... Patrick.McIntyre(at)outlook(dot)com (unsure if email addresses get filtered out!)Thanks.

Dan - students are having to be more career focused nowadays for a number of reasons. The main one being climate and the knock on effect in the form of increased competition for job vacancies (after all, every Tom, Dick and Harry gets a degree nowadays). As a result of this increased competition, students have to look at how they are going to differentiate themselves in order to begin a career in an industry they would like to work in. I did not say that the increased career focus was out of choice - it is more forced due to the shitty economy we have faced over the past ~6 years. That is a very simple and solid enough reason to 'agree to disagree' with anyone saying that the above isn't true. If you feel like it, look the facts up. I am well aware of where I stand on this point without having to do your own research for you. Your bullets are also completely irrelevant when debating whether or not students are more focused. I have no idea what you are attempting to get at especially when you state that liberal views to s3x etc. weren't widely adopted back in the day. The use of a quote from Kanye West definitely added weight and integrity to your (clearly educated) retort though.

^^^ Funny how adept the thread title turned out to be :)

Hi Patrick,I'll drop you an e-mail. There are a number of things you can do. Maybe, you can start a new thread, titled "Internship Opportunities" or something. Give an overview of yourself (sorry, I have forgotten) and ask the guys and gals on here about internship opportunities. I am sure everyone from Cool, through Mars, to Dan, would be happy to push you in the right direction (I don't think can't help much as I am not UK-based these days, but let's see). I don't think it's limited to penultimate or final year students. In my first year, after I got my results, I made copies and sent that off to as many companies as possible. It does not necessarily have to be "proper internships" per se, but work shadowing of some semblance.Be "creative". I got my first internship while earning some summer dosh caddying, got lucky and had the right golfer, had work shadowing until December that year. Another, while working nights as a security guard, though I did target this company. The gist is, keep at it, you never know when opportunity might present itself. I'm sure you can do this even if you're not in your penultimate or final year. My bother-in-law is Scottish, they live in Scotland, my niece is a 2nd-year who secured an internship (and she had one last year).

[quote]Camster - I like your posts but this time we shall have to agree to disagree. I'm not entirely convinced that the way you did things differently 20 years ago has anything to do with whether students were more career focused or not. Also, just to spice things up a little more - maybe the older generation should have been more in tune with how not to send the economy into ruin rather than 'honing soft skills the hard way' and subsequently letting the more youthful generation pick up the pieces? Heh heh ;) [/quote]This is what I mean. There were crises in the 80s. Also, early 90s. Back then, we had double-digit rates! Instead of blaming, we simply got on with it, trying to secure a (brighter) future.Like I always say, life is 90% how you react to things. You can't control everything that happens, but you can 100% control your reaction.

I know, it's terrifying.

You do know that PageGroup and MC is a little different...?

Tacitus, sharpen up! But far more importantly, lighten up! It feels like you have a desperate case of I-wanna-play-with-the-older-boys syndrome. I can see you mincing around an office somewhere in a couple of years trying to impress your new colleagues by striking up conversations over coffee about the latest FT article you read, or the consequences of the Greek bailout, whereas they would much rather chat about Justin Bieber's latest bailout.Patrick, to Camster's point, if I can help point you toward useful opportunities, I'd be happy to. My real strengths are in the domain of life coaching and the pursuit of happiness (as demonstrated). But depending on what you're after, I'll let you know if I have any ideas or leads.To make a very general point, don't feel you need to limit internships (and even your first career step) to MC, in order to open doors in MC. MCs (including the top tier, but especially the Big4s/Accenture/CapGem/PA, etc.) are quite keen to interview candidates with 2-3 years at blue chips, for example. If you don't have the CV for a grad programme at a FTSE100, you won't have the CV for MC.Assuming you have acceptable academics, then it can be just as valuable (if not more) to use your summer(s) to do some cool, stand-out stuff: some kind of volunteer assignment in an African country (with an element of analysis/project management), something challenging related to any particular hobbies/passions you are strong in (music, some cause/charity)?When I have 20 CVs with a 2:1 in business studies in front of me, I'm always looking out for that something that really makes me want to meet someone. A 2-month internship in the risk department at KPMG (to crudely pick an example) doesn't tend to be it.For context, I started out in a boutique strategy firm (played footie with a manager there, he gave me a shot as an intern, then they kept me on). I've been working in group strategy for a MNC for a few years. If any of my views on the consulting industry are out-dated, I'm happy to stand corrected (like a man in orthopedic shoes)

Sadly mistaken if you think that. I'd rather not have a dinosaur-esque view of the world. I'd also rather not waste my time having conversations about Justin Bieber of all people.As a final note - seeing as this financial crisis is widely regarded as the worst since the 1930s I believe my point still stands as it being a more difficult period for students thus requiring greater career focus to get somewhere. Of course I don't expect the older generation to agree as clearly it was 'oh so difficult' back in the day. Little wonder why there is such a difference of opinion on 'attitude'.

Hello.I think you are missing the point of my post - if it is so much more difficult to get a job nowdays (it may well be, I am not arguing that point) - surely people will be willing to get down and dirty and do more menial tasks?unless, of course, it's more difficult to get desirable jobs. This is a different point all together.

Quite the opposite Smithy. It goes hand in hand. The story goes along the lines of:1) more difficult to get a job2) students jump through the additional hoops to even be considered for a role3) they then go through round after round of interviews4) recruitment promises them the world and make them feel as though they are the 'chosen ones'5) they join and find out that after everything they have gone through they are faced with the reality of spell checking a word documentIt is very very simple to see why you are then handed students who have 'attitude' towards the menial tasks.

[quote]Quite the opposite Smithy. It goes hand in hand. The story goes along the lines of:1) more difficult to get a job2) students jump through the additional hoops to even be considered for a role3) they then go through round after round of interviews4) recruitment promises them the world and make them feel as though they are the 'chosen ones'5) they join and find out that after everything they have gone through they are faced with the reality of spell checking a word documentIt is very very simple to see why you are then handed students who have 'attitude' towards the menial tasks.[/quote]We've all done the above.But here's a question. Say, you interviewed at McKinsey. It was as above. You have joined, but now have to "proof-read and get coffee". Another example. You get into Tesco's graduate programme. Part of the programme includes understanding how their stores operate (operational excellence), which means rolling up your sleeves, stacking shelves, understanding how inventory works, etc.Are these "menial activities" beneath you? Just wondering.....

1) more difficult to get a job 2) students jump through the additional hoops to even be considered for a role 3) they then go through round after round of interviews 4) recruitment promises them the world and make them feel as though they are the 'chosen ones' 5) they join and find out that after everything they have gone through they are faced with the reality of spell checking a word document _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ what does any of that have to do with career focus? Career focus goes something along the lines of: I joined Uni in an accountancy degree, because i knew i wanted to be an accountant. I then worked hard to learn all I needed to know about accounting. I researched what types of accounting firms and professions existed out there, and picked the one I deemed myself the most suited to. I then prepared myself as best as possible to get a job with that firm, as that type of accountant. All of my previous points referred (perfectly directly and relevantly) to that scenario (called career focus).Career focus is not: Oh, sh1t! There are 2,000 of us graduating from economoics next year, and there are so few jobs. Not only that, the geography, history, engineering, graphic design and law students are now also potentially competing for the same jobs as we are. What if I don't get a job I like? What if I don't get a job at all? Oh no, I better work even harder because I'm so insecure and uncertain.

Lol! To add, if accountancy, I wouldn't bother with uni. Instead, I'll go for a professional qualification.C'mon Dan. Be kind.

They shouldn't be beneath anyone Camster. I'm playing Devils advocate because time after time I hear this broken record of a complaint about students attitudes getting worse in the office and it is annoying. Instead of individuals having a whinge about it, how about looking to manage them a little better. I am not a student and haven't been for a number of years now but I get the whole picture. There are a number of contributing factors as to why they have attitude about carrying out the menial tasks. Fetching coffee and proof reading is fine but that should be reserved for the true interns and those who are yet to graduate.And honestly Camster - did you really go through 5/6/7 rounds of interviews 20/30 years ago in the same fashion as they do today? If so then I obviously take it back.

Tacitus1 ,I had more than that!!!!!In 2012, I was sick and tired of MC. Affecting personal life.So, I applied to a telecoms vendor, even though I wasn't too keen on the idea of going back to a vendor (though I wanted back in industry). They made me jump through hoops!!! Close to 10 rounds, if I remember right. With various people, from the UK, Netherlands, external interviewers, etc. I kid you not. Effin crazy I tell you!In the end, I didn't get it. Of course, I was gutted. But I kept at it. Then, in 2013, I got this current group strategy role.The gist is.....A career is not easy! It's effin difficult! Also, it takes time! It's not something you can "get in 5 minutes". With a solid career comes reputation (and integrity).

[quote] Fetching coffee and proof reading is fine but that should be reserved for the true interns and those who are yet to graduate.[/quote]Maybe..... just maybe..... one is asked to proof-read, say, a proposal, so that one can better understand what that potential project is all about? Because..... one might be staffed on it as a BA?One thing my old man told me still stands true. "Give your 100% in anything and everything you do. Even if it seems not worth your time and hassle. You never know....."

Hell Camster now we are getting into technicalities!!! You can obviously carry out a proof reading at spelling/formatting level and another at content level. I was more on about the former and I have seen analysts/associates who have graduated from Oxford/Cambridge (who dare I say it had already worked numerous internships doing the same shizzle) being given this type of work to do. Couple it with the difficulties they have dealt with in trying to get there in the first place due to economy etc. then it really is quite clear in my mind why some will have an attitude.On a more important note - who do you reckon will contest the WC Final? I seem to vaguely remember you saying you work in the region and have managed to bag tickets? I could be wrong there though. I pulled Honduras in the office sweep stake. I couldn't have been any less impressed...

Tac,I have no idea. Am just hoping for good matches.But according to Mourinho..... England vs. Portugal :) https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/dirty-tackle/jose-mourinho-has-a-laugh-while-predicting-an-england-portugal-world-cup-final-183514028.html

It's simple a simple supply and demand puzzle. If you're not happy doing what you are asked to do, someone else will.

The various responses by managers, should shed a little light on this. If you and Timothy both begin your careers together, and you are burning the midnight oil on a bid response, getting all those bullet points all pretty, and then you see Timothy doing something vaguely interesting, through nothing other than luck, you might be a little arsy, until the roles are reversed after a month anyway!

[quote]Hi Patrick,I'll drop you an e-mail. There are a number of things you can do. Maybe, you can start a new thread, titled "Internship Opportunities" or something. Give an overview of yourself (sorry, I have forgotten) and ask the guys and gals on here about internship opportunities. I am sure everyone from Cool, through Mars, to Dan, would be happy to push you in the right direction (I don't think can't help much as I am not UK-based these days, but let's see). I don't think it's limited to penultimate or final year students. In my first year, after I got my results, I made copies and sent that off to as many companies as possible. It does not necessarily have to be "proper internships" per se, but work shadowing of some semblance.Be "creative". I got my first internship while earning some summer dosh caddying, got lucky and had the right golfer, had work shadowing until December that year. Another, while working nights as a security guard, though I did target this company. The gist is, keep at it, you never know when opportunity might present itself. I'm sure you can do this even if you're not in your penultimate or final year. My bother-in-law is Scottish, they live in Scotland, my niece is a 2nd-year who secured an internship (and she had one last year).[/quote]Thanks for the response Camster, I haven't received an email from you yet but I look forward to talking to you more about this when you're free, I have a couple of questions I'd like to ask if that's cool? Nothing too long-winded, but genuine advice from someone who's been there would be ideal.The caddying and targeting of the night shift security guard firm are both excellent ideas, I feel my work doesn't really present those sorts of opportunities, that said, I do have excellent contacts I could maybe utilize a bit more, this is certainly something I'll give serious thought to and come up with some sort of strategy so as not to come across as 'all take, no give'. Thanks again - hopefully we'll speak soon. On another note, your dad's "Give your 100% in anything and everything you do. Even if it seems not worth your time and hassle. You never know....." struck a chord with me there, excellent stuff.[quote]You do know that PageGroup and MC is a little different...?[/quote]Smithy, I'll take this comment as a bit of tongue in cheek. It leads lightly on to Dan's point (as quoted below) though - I don't want to narrow my options to MC internships only, I can only see me closing the door on any firm bar an MC firm as a bad thing.Of course this would be my first choice, but I'm smart enough not to put all of my eggs in to one basket. So long as the company is successful & reputable, and more importantly, in a position to teach me things, I'd be more than happy doing an internship there. But to answer your question, yes, I do know the recruitment and MC are two different things. [quote]Patrick, to Camster's point, if I can help point you toward useful opportunities, I'd be happy to. My real strengths are in the domain of life coaching and the pursuit of happiness (as demonstrated). But depending on what you're after, I'll let you know if I have any ideas or leads.To make a very general point, don't feel you need to limit internships (and even your first career step) to MC, in order to open doors in MC. MCs (including the top tier, but especially the Big4s/Accenture/CapGem/PA, etc.) are quite keen to interview candidates with 2-3 years at blue chips, for example. If you don't have the CV for a grad programme at a FTSE100, you won't have the CV for MC.Assuming you have acceptable academics, then it can be just as valuable (if not more) to use your summer(s) to do some cool, stand-out stuff: some kind of volunteer assignment in an African country (with an element of analysis/project management), something challenging related to any particular hobbies/passions you are strong in (music, some cause/charity)?When I have 20 CVs with a 2:1 in business studies in front of me, I'm always looking out for that something that really makes me want to meet someone. A 2-month internship in the risk department at KPMG (to crudely pick an example) doesn't tend to be it.For context, I started out in a boutique strategy firm (played footie with a manager there, he gave me a shot as an intern, then they kept me on). I've been working in group strategy for a MNC for a few years. If any of my views on the consulting industry are out-dated, I'm happy to stand corrected (like a man in orthopedic shoes) [/quote]Thanks for your feedback here Dan, it's interesting to get different perspectives from people in the know. Certainly the offer of ideas/help is invaluable - if and when you have time for me to pick your brains briefly, please feel free to email me too - patrick.mcintyre@outlook.com On your note regarding FTSE100 companies, I currently work for one - although it's in the travel industry (and working in sales), so not as strong a claim as it first appears I'd imagine. I suppose I could start focusing on targeting 'bigger' companies - or would you say staying put will suffice? I'd imagine I could also easily work towards management level at the retail end if this would have any real impact? (I know you know very little of the details right now but you may be in a position to offer an input!)An interesting point on CVs standing out by the way. Particularly your views volunteering (which seems to divide opinions mostly)... Coincidentally, do exchange years at Uni appeal to you as a recruiter? I'll be doing this anyway for the personal satisfaction, but if it helps - bonus!Thanks again.