Hi everybody,I am a french student (well english but having studied in France) and have just finished a MA in engineering. I am currently training in the consumer computer business as an international product manager in Paris. I have just been offered a one year position in charge of one of the biggest markets in europe.I am getting great operational experience and am sure it will be a great asset to my MC applications for 2009. I have one question for people who are knowledgable on MSc in Management; I am considering applying to french and UK business schools to do a MSc in 09/10 and then apply to MC firms. I really want to study the theory of management and business but I am wondering if it is actually necessary to do that type of course. Would it give me an advantage compared to other non MSc students ?What schools should I target ? (I am looking into LSE, CASS, Imperial, ESCP-EAP, HEC.I hope you can help me in my quest for the optimal MC profile and studies and I thank you all for your help.C.

Hi Pikech! First a few words of caution: I have applied for most of the schools you mention a couple of years ago, and eventually chose LSE. Though the Msc brought quite a number of people to MC (myself amongst others), there are a few things to keep in mind. First of all, at least half of the students on the Msc programs have no work experience (that's also the objective of these programs), compared to MBA's where a minimum of 3 years of working experience is required. In addition, the Msc programs (at least the one at LSE) is a LOT more theoretical than the case-study based MBA programs. From your background, you might want to consider doing an MBA in a few years time. Don't forget, that after the Msc, enrolling into a top MBA will be far more difficult (you have to explain the added value, and frankly there is none). So think carefully what you want to do, MBA or Msc. With regards to your question: from my class of 26 students, 6 ended up in top-tier MC straight away, and a further 10 after one year. The rest went into industry or pursued an academic career. Also interesting to point out that a lot of people had an engineering background. That's LSE - I know that ESCP and HEC should have similar profiles. Imperial is - I thought - only MBA? Cass.....don't do Cass, the brand value is not as high (though you would learn exactly the same things ;)). In my opinion: yes...engineers would benefit from an Msc.

PikechInteresting thread! I like the response from LSE alumnus. Bear in mind though that in the real world you will probably never find an optimal MC profile. People have very different opinions on what they want from their careers. Yet it's good to raise a post like yours and see which trajectories your career might take. An MBA involves linking management theory to management in the real world. Case study work is part of that, but it also involves working with companies outside the business school, and at a top school you would find many successful 'real' as opposed to 'academic' business people involved, even in the coursework, although many lecturers are in fact advisors to the business world anyway.As a result of this connection between academia and business you often find MBA students doing the course mid-career. It means that you have more experience with which to understand the theory, and you are more able to question the vast quantity of management theory and research.The MSc is a desirable course, particularly if it is from a top university, and its one way for a graduate to differentiate themselves from other graduates. That said I reckon a year at McKinsey's would be more highly valued than an MSc from a lesser known school. Most people would take this view.Essentially consulting is often described as a broad church. You don’t have to have any particular qualification or business experiences to offer consulting services. It just makes it more difficult, ceteris paribus, if you don’t have management qualifications and/or experience and want to provide management consulting to clients. In the extreme it is often your colleagues that end up suffering the most if you don't know much about what you are advising.Why not therefore be more pragmatic? You know experience will help you and you have an exciting role that we might assume would be attractive to MC recruiters. If you run into a brick wall (a recession!) you can take an academic route, whereas if you get offered a marvellous consulting role, then you can put the MSc on hold, and perhaps consider the MBA option later on.It does not have to be a case of plan A or plan B, you could consider both plans at different times (plan C if you like).Get a few rankings of universities in France and the UK (The Times do them in the UK). Find out which do management (are they good departments?). Les grandes écoles or top 5 Universities are typically valued on a CV. Make your own choice. LSE and the London colleges often stack up well in rankings. You may like the idea of living in halls in a big city, or prefer to live outside the capitals. What is your optimal choice?

Hey,Thank you for your advice and answers to my questions.My plan is to apply to MC firms for sep/oct 09 intake and also to MSc in top schools. I do seriously consider doing a MBA later on in my career and would obviously prefer to get into a MC firm that would sponsor me..I will then see how things turn out, I will have the option of going into MC (If I get an offer..), following a top MSc (Again, if I get an offer...) or staying in the industry I am working in. Ultimately, my goal is to work in MC but I know there are many many different ways of getting in. I am focused and determined so I don't see why I can't follow my dream career ;-).Two last questions:1) Would you agree that a MSc can jeopardise your chances of a top MBA later on in a career ?2) After how many years experience in industry should I not consider myself a graduate anymore and apply to MC firms as an experienced hire ?Thanks again for your time and help !

To question #2, (this is for MBB firms) I would say that after 2-3 years it is hard to apply as a graduate. But unless your work experience is brilliant (BB IBank etc) then it is hard to get in as an experienced hire unless you have 4/5 years experience. People with 2-4 years decent experience can sometimes find themselves in a bit of a no man's land. Though this is probably changing a bit and at somewhere like McKinsey they can maybe offer you a JA post (between grad and experienced hire).Not sure what others think.

To question 1) Yes I suppose so, but mainly because it might impact on your own motivation to do an MBA. It was awful to read about the violent attack on French engineering graduates in London this year. It is certainly embarassing for many of us in the UK. I hope it does not influence your career choices as it was not at all normal behaviour for London (or anywhere else).

Hi,Thanks for those quick answers.I am actually British and having lived in France for 18 year now, I long to come back and be based in London so no, that horrible attack does not influence my career choice. :-)Coming back to question 1), taking motivation out of the equation, would you confirm what LSE alumnus said in post #2 about a MSc endangering the chances of getting into top MBAs ?Thanks again.C.

The reason I said that, is that you will have a hard time explaining the added value to both your employer and the future business school. Your employer will (should) take the view that you already have a business degree at masters level. A TOP business school, has so many applications that they select not only on basis of talent and corporate backing but also on the added value they think the MBA will bring you (you can verify this story by checking message boards for HBS / LBS). Your own motivation would probably also be a problem. At that stage, your career would benefit more from a specialist degree such as the LBS Masters in Finance or any other course that deepens your knowledge of your area of interest. MBA after Msc in management and work experience, seems a bit of a waste of money to me. But hey, that's just me!

Hey hello... i just need some basic info ..guyss?well i m varun. i am going to start my MSC in management ths sep. what i want to know.. is that if i want to work part time with MC. how can i reach thm. Well my aim is to get some part time relavent work experience . So that whn i complete my MSC i can show it a bit experinc.. well frankly i m just new to ths contry UK so dint know that much about what is scenario.. out here... Does a part time work experience a be counted while i go for permenet job..Who are the big MCs in middlesex.. uk.. juss gime some idea..!!!???

Part-time working in Management Consulting? Very unlikely unless you're a senior consultant and/or married to a partner.

Don't you dare judge your thoughts based on personal opinions. How can you say Cass experience is not as good as LSE. What LSE provides you is a moronous culture to becomes a theortical junk whereas Cass provides you with the hard-core city experience. Do you even know the ranking of MBA for Cass compared to LSE? Have you been to Cass open day and understood how serious these people are about your career, rather than sit down in old junkered LSE building and becoming a brand whore.I think Cass provides you with better career options and closer proximity to financial hub. Get your facts correct before outright rejecting a school.

I've done the MSc Management at LSE too and can only recommend it if you're interested in joining a top consulting firm afterwards. Don't be distracted by people warning you not to become a "brand whore" - LSE's brand is there for a reason, and you'll get a very rigorous postgraduate eductation (rigorous enough to understand that comparing "the Cass MBA with the LSE one" is not possible, as LSE doesn't offer one).The MSc Management is a specialized master's degree with focus on the analysis of strategy and organizations. "Softer" MBAs are quite different, and I know of LSE MSc alumni that went on to pursue MBA studies and top schools (I only know anecdotes and can't say whether "everyone gets an MBA later" - you might want to research this more before making your decision).Good luck with your decision!

I hate to be pedantic, but the LSE MSc in Management is a generalist Masters, not a specialised Masters. It caters to those without an undergraduate background in business or management and without work experience. It provides a broad background to the subject of business and does not have the flexibility in module choice to specialise.

though not a fan of rankings....the Financial times ranking is still probably a good reflection of how different Mscin management are perceived by future employers. The LSE Msc in Management performs year after year extremely well in this ranking - the LSE itself is consistently 3d in europe, and the CEMS programme which it also offers is consistently second. Pedant is right that it is a generalist Msc, and this is no secret - it is a good addition for those with no business background wishing to add that to their CV before entering the job-market. In this perspective it does what it does well.

http://rankings.ft.com/masters-in-management

pedant is right here - this degree is often taken by students with no prior studies in business/management or work experience. however, i also had many people in my course who had done undergrad accounting, finance, marketing, management etc., and those people found it a good addition to their studies - you wouldn't get in-depth knowledge in special subjects when taking the msc, but get to see the firm as a whole vs. its competitors etc.

Yeah, I second that :) In fact, simply reading the brochure gives you a surprisingly honest view of the course's content and objectives. http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/graduateProspectus2008/taughtProgrammes/MScManagementAndStrategy.htm By the way, the LSE offers a number of different management style course nowadays. Couldn't comment on those, since they are a recent addition to their offered courses.