Hi,Have offers from both so, ignoring salaries, what recommendations would people have? Reputation, progression etc. Any advice from people - especially if anyone has worked at either?Thank you

No doubt,go for ATK - they will definitly burst your development more than PA.

sounds painful

If I have 2 identical CVs side by side, one from ATK and one from PA, I favour the ATK cv. Simple as that. This should be a no brainer.

I wouldn’t opt for PA. Most of our SMP guys are tied up in project management roles in the public sector. Anyway, no one has ever heard of PA outside the UK, other than in the Scandinavian countries

Thanks all. Looks pretty clear cut...Mars - why do you ATK see as more valuable? Do you have some insights on what it is like there particularly vs others?Thank you

I could bore you (and myself) with a weighty answer, delineating the contours of your battlefield... sorry, forgot myself for a moment. Do yourself a favour and go to ATK, joining PA at the moment will not do you any favours, they are now tier 3 and unless the partners raise their game substantially are destined to stay there.

That's right Mars, there seems to be structural flaws with its business model, it relies significantly in operational assignment which tend to be administrative rather than going for or winning strategic-based work with heavy organisational components. PA is like an inefficient, buearcratic, adminstration obsessed state-run behemoth - the very client's it actively (and successfully) courtsZB

One of my personal faves from PA is the article printed in full on their external website, where their CEO extolls the dangers of chocolate biscuits and other refined sugar during working hours, claiming that after eating chocolate biscuits “your brain shuts down. And the impact of refined sugar is to send people into a tizzy”.Full text (from the PA website) is here:http://www.paconsulting.com/news/about_pa/2007/Jon+M+food+for+thought.htm

HiI've worked at both PA and ATK, and would advise you to pick ATK.PA seems to have a lot of dissatisfied staff at the moment. The business model makes a lot of money for people at the top, not always cascaded down. Base salaries at PA are lower than ATK and PA put a lot of weight on bonuses that don't always materialise. PA in London also do a lot of government work, even if you are in other practices you can get stuck on these projects for a long time. However on the plus side, PA is a friendly, almost collegiate place to work with a mix of people from different backgrounds. PA expects you to perform to get the big bonuses, but it is also less of an 'up or out culture'. there is flexibility to work across practices and also to get involved where you are interested if you push.ATK - has better brand name than PA which gets them in to more interesting clients at a higher level for projects. I'd be interested in what the performance culture and measures are there since the MBO. Base salaries used to be at higher end of consultancies but not so much focus on bonus. Definitely a 'grow or go' culture (ie up or out). Take on lots of MBA grads compared to PA. Expected to learn fast even if you haven't had prior consulting experience. Bright bunch of colleagues. Higher pressure than working at PA. ATK had started doing more government work too, but you might want to check since MBO (and split from EDS) whether they do less of this.Good luck with your new job !

I have to hand it to ZB he nailed the problem with PA square on the head.In much the same way that dogs and their owners start to look alike after a while, so too with PA and their mainly public sector client base - lacking agility, ponderous and unsure of how to get out of the muddle of mid market caretaker projects they have somehow found themselves in. I suspect we will see PA come back up but it won't be soon.

As a PA-er I would also agree ATK, though Mars you’re a little out of date with your PA assumptions, around 60% of its work is currently private sector against 2 years ago when it was 60% public.Having left a top-tier firm to go to PA (I wasn’t up-or-out, I just wanted to see my newborn child more), it does have some charm as a place to work. Particularly, I have a lot more influence on my career direction and am responsible for my own client base without more senior people sniping for a share of the pie, but the projects won are not consistently of the same standard as at a place like ATK. I wouldn’t call them “third tier” projects, but they’re not always the most exciting.

If there is more focus on pay at ATK than on bonus is there quick pay progression? Say if you join as a senior business anlayst from industry on 40-50k, what might you be on in a few years?

Interesting question 'rty', any ideas oh marvellous top-consultant forum...??

"In much the same way that dogs and their owners start to look alike after a while, so too with PA and their mainly public sector client base"The frightening thing for all of us (who pay taxes) is that the owner starts looking like the dog.PA's undeniable reliance on the public sector is probably a good thing anyway with a likely recession squeezing consultancy work in the private sector. That squeeze won't happen in the public sector - even if there was to be a change of government - because the civil service has been so "downsized" over the last 20 years that various consultancies are permanently engaged as temping agencies for the government.PA has done well out of this government by being the temping agency of choice. Indeed, fortunes of PA and the Labour Party seem to mirror each other: back from the abyss in 1992, a strong period after a lot of change, and then running out of steam and direction, and now apparently heading back to the abyss despite every good-intentioned but bumbling move.Anyway, ATK are no better. Would you rather join Middlesborough or Spurs - mid-table mediocrity either way, perhaps with the odd Carling Cup/MCA award thrown in every few years

Is ATK really mid-table mediocrity?!? Really interesed in people's opinions as i start to plan a career change with their job offer

Isn't this just an opinion thing? Or is ATK really viewed in a certain way?

You cannot judge any Consultancy with a blanket statement.As someone who currently works for ATK, I can say that around Europe they are recognised as the number one firm for Supply Chain Consulting, they are also very well recognised generally in Operational Consulting.Can they compete with Mck in Strategy Consulting? Probably not, but then again they are ahead of the Big 4 in Strategy Consulting.

i think you should work as an IT charlatan at accenture. I know ZB would love that job.

Is ATK a good consulting and career option or just mid-table mediocrity??? Is it that far removed from MBB?

IMO ATK is as close as you can get to MBB without actually being MBB. Great spingboard inot those firms tooDont know what progression is like in the firm though

You are wrong to think MBBB is the be all and end all. May be they are within consulting world - in consultants minds only. Outside, no one gives a sh*t. Tesco's Finest may be better than Tesco's BettaBuy - but its still Tescos.And, no, I'm not going to start mentioning Aldi, Morrisons, Lidl, Sainsburys etc and making comparisons to consulting firms.But if you had any of these supermarkets on your CV, would it make you any more better qualified or experienced or different if you had one instead of the other?

Sadly, even in supermarkets it does make a difference. Tesco / the big 4 (Tesco, JS, Morrisons and Asda) are seen as better accounts to work on within manufacturers. Within the retail industry you are better placed to exit into other industries or to move into higher ranking positions in other retail outfits if you have these on your CV.Back to the central question - is it worth joining ATK? What does the progression and pay look like?

YOU FORGOT SAINSBURYS!!!!

JS

Within the retail industry you are better placed to exit into other industries or to move into higher ranking positions in other retail outfits if you have these on your CV. WHAT? SCANNING AT THE TILL? That's the comparison - it doesn't matter which one you're at.

It is pretty obviously referring to head office and management positions in retail outfits.Perhaps you've missed a trick if you don't recognise the differences in development and skill set between working in a local store and a global supermarket chain. What the heck does this have to do with ATK? It is a bloody good firm but not as well known as MBB. There. I said it.

No, wow.If you look at the post originally mentioning supermarkets, its clear that what it is saying is that the supposed differentiation is minor and therefore irrelevant - much like in MC. Scanning on a till or wasting time on PowerPoint at any firm equips you with the same limited skills. I don't care if you worked at Waitrose, you can still only scan a till.