I'm a soon to be graduating medical student from Imperial College London. MB BS and BSc. Played Sport to a National Level and awarded prizes for contribution to medical school. Will they employ a medic and how do I go about it? Any kinda help would be greatly appreciated.

By 'they' I mean well respected consultancies!

'they' employ pretty much anyone with the right skills/ experience.I know medics (2), archaeologists (1) and librarians (2)good luck

What a shame and what a waste of fees! I appreciate that career aspiratiions change but thousands would have loved to have taken up your place. I tend to think that fees should be repaid in the case of abortive spending in cases such as these, much in the same way that you would owe the armed services a bit of money if after they had paid for you you decided at the end of university that you were not after all prepared to give them the agreed minimum commitment.From the point of view of earnings and pride in the job I'd stick with the medicine BTW.

Quack,Until you have walked in somebody else's shoes you can have no idea what the reasons for a decision may be.As a doctor that has also left the profession I can fully understand the reasons for leaving. I occasionally talk to people like you these days and when they tell me what a shame and a waste it is that I am no longer in medicine it pisses me off no end. They invariably have absolutely idea what they are talking about.Doctor, you will have lots of opportunities available to you but it is v important that you do things the right way. Feel free to email me at londoc@hotmail.com if you want some help from someone that has been there.

Estimated cost of training a doctor, between entry to medical school and full registration: £200,000 - £250,000 (S of S for Health, Hansard). Obviously you are quitting long before this point, but it costs the government a lot to train you, on the implicit understanding that the country needs doctors and that you will work (at least initially) for the NHS.Another good argument for charging students the full cost of their education and letting market forces do their work!Regardless of your feelings on the matter, it is unarguably a waste because money has been spent without any return.

Quack,If the government needs doctors then perhaps the government should rethink MMC so that people that have worked for 8 years or so in the NHS and trained as surgeons don't suddenly find themselves at a career roadblock. Or newly starting doctors don't find themselves unable to get jobs.When these things happen (and it is happening right now), then the implicit understandings that you speak of tend to go straight out of the window.If the government want a return on their investment then they should make some effort to look after their employees, like any corporation would.

Fair points; I understand that all is not rosy in the world of medicine.I had been musing a few years ago on the "what if" scenario had I done medicine - my brother (dentist) was quick to tell me of the significant proportion of his medical colleagues who were pretty unhappy in their jobs. I imagine that the substantial pay rises of recent years may have gone a little to improving this, but the rates of alcoholism and suicide in the profession tell their own sad tale I suppose.

Quack,You could use the same argument on training for consultants. How many consultants have this 'loyalty' to their trainers?Medical students have every right to pride in what they're doing, but as with any job, give them the chance to say 'no'. And giving up that tyoe of career does take balls.

It is a sorry state of affairs at the moment.I consider myself quite lucky as I made a conscious decision to leave and do other stuff I found more interesting.Unfortunately at the moment people are being forced to leave even though they don't want to because they simply run out of viable options within UK medicine.The pay rises for GPs certainly are nice, but the government can't afford them so it will be both interesting and depressing to see the novel methods they employ to gradually claw the pay back.

Consultants generally paid for their own MBAs; and any other training was paid for by customers (albeit indirectly).It does not take six years to realise you have made the wrong choice of career. If it were your own money you would either have given up earlier or would work as a Doctor to repay the debt.

Hi,I'm a doc trying to enter consultancy. Just to agree with what has been said, I too am finding it difficult to leave medicine and I personally think that the MMC restructuring has made the job a lot less appealing.I understand that some firms are quite receptive to doctors e.g. Mckinsey, BCG, Bain, Deloitte, Accenture, Monitor. Does anyone know if this list is right and/or if there are any others that I should add on?

mm, what is your point?It is not his/her own money and there is no debt to pay so everything you say is hypothetical and irrelevant to this thread.Please only add to threads if you have something constructive to say.

Totally agree with D.You can't preach about someone's position and choices without knowing them, mm. What if it only took 1 year to decide it wasn't right, but decided to finish the degree anyway as it is a good qualification to have? Or possibly it did take 6 years to decide - it can take people their whole lives to decide. Or what if they were an international student and did pay for it off their own back?

MM's point is quite relevant. The earlier point about consultants' training was a red herring, as they will not generally spend money on training that will not show any return on investment and will not generally send you to university / business school without an arrangement to repay the fees should you not work for themfor a period afterwards. The person who introduced this example has inadvertedly supported the argument to the contrary - good skills!The government pays EU medical students' fees on the implicit understanding that they will work as doctors (although we have discussed what actually happens after graduation).The annual cost of tuition is far higher than other courses, and of course the course is longer than most others, meaning that the overall cost is much greater.It would be quite inappropriate to study medicine without any intention of working as a doctor - even if one paid oneself, there is still the issue of taking a place. Given the demands of the course, it is unlikely that this would happen.People are allowed to change their minds but ideally if you have your fees paid there should be a reciprocal obligation. I am sure that in future we will move towards the US model and pay our own fees for university courses in general, which will put situations such as this into an interesting perspective - and mm makes what I thimk is quite an accurate observation as to what might happen here.

I consider that there is a debt to repay. Whilst there is no legal financial obligation there is definitely a moral obligation.Of course the reason the NHS in in such a mess is because it is run in this adhoc fashion with little accountability for financial costs or benefits.

You have missed the point though.If you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of doctors leaving medicine then why not start another thread rather than adding comments that add nothing to this one. I will happily contribute my thoughts.It seems to me that some people are just airing their views, which I imagine the original poster neither wants nor needs. So far nobody has added any constructive comments to help this guy/gal out.

I can definitely say that Mckinsey and BCG employ people from a medical background. It is important to get your pitch right as the key question will be, why you want to be a consultant. Of the two, I think BCG is a more open place to people of diverse background who will undoubtedly have different approaches to work.

Original Poster. Thank you all for your replies. The thread has taken a slight diversion to the rights and wrongs of educational expenses, career options and even moral obligations.I was purely asking for advice so thanks to those that have posted it. As to those that believe there are certain obligations to fulfilling a medical career I suggest you fully research the new MMC guidelines and are fully aware of areas such as new banding of salaries in london due to debt, the lottery experiment that has changed applications for F1 years 3 times over the last 3 years, and the number of people being driven out of the proffesion due to the goverments approach to its dopctor workforce. Londoc@hotmail i will be in touch soon. Thanks again

To mm. I just wanted to let you know that it didnt take me 6 years to realise i had made the wrong career choice. Unofrtunately the way medical courses are run at imperial they are combined clinincal and theory from the very start. I have a MBBS and a BSc and believe that even working in the proffesion would provide with excellent attributes from a vocational degree. I have also loved being a student for 6 years...had the opportunity to do some amazing things and believe with a 40 year career ahead of me I can achieve anything I want in potentially any field.

I must say, I find the 'walking in one's shoes' argument quite weak and a cop-out... It lends itself too easily to relativism -- and makes it such that none of us can understand others' views because we don't have their life experiences and world views... If this were the case, forums such as this would not exist (it would be rather pointless, no?).As for a doctor making a career change -- no one is bound to pursue a given career... and conversely, no one has a 'right' to a given job... (Look at nurses, who, after making similar dedications in their studies, struggle to find a job!). If you want to make a career change, then go for it and best of luck! That said, I also think the criticisms raised here do have merit... Yes, we all have a right to change career paths -- but, it also should be said that, before choosing any given career path, one should thoroughly research and understand what that career involves... Sometimes we learn these lessons the hard way, but we're all human!