Hi guys,I need some advice from this forum about how to change my current situation (if it still possible). I am working in industry as Team Leader with a small group (3.5 y of experience), have a PhD in Biochemistry and am about starting a MBA (Warwick, part-time). Unfortunately my interests have changed in the last years and the career in industry that seemed so appealing is just...nonsense. Studiny science was a mistake, doing a PhD the fatal error (you get old and not interesting, if not for R&D or technical roles; the only advantage of this PhD was that I could make experience abroad). I have read a lot concerning consulting and I am extremely attracted by this track (fast pace environment, projects that are completed in months and not in years -as in R&D or technical application positions-, a more dynamic environment). I am aware of the work load of consulting but am not too afraid (being bored kills you, not just too much work). How would you structure a job application with a profile like mine for a position in consulting (maybe focussed on the industry sector in which I have experience)? Is a switch to consulting out of sense? It is difficult to sell experience in product development or a technical manager position as relevant. I wish I had a MSc in Business and more years of experience in the right industry. It is really sad to see your one work as a great loss of time. Thanks

OK a lot to take in here. On the plus side, some consulting firms do highly value PhDs. At my former employer Roland Berger, for example, a high proportion of entry-level hires were PhDs as this qualification is far more common in Germany and this propensity to hire PhDs culturally spreads through the company into other geographies. I suspect the same would be true of most Germanic consulting firms.A related point would be that lots of smaller independent consulting firms are far more interested in hiring "the right person" rather than hiring to some academic mould that is seen as the "norm" within that firm. Smaller firms will often value maturity and experience if that means their more "junior" staff are likely to be able to assist with all aspects of the business. I would therefore focus your efforts on researching and approaching smaller consulting firms.On a related point - when the hiring market is much more buoyant, simply having some credible consulting experience on your CV will open doors for you at some of the bigger consulting brands, so the above approach doesn't necessarily mean you can't ever aspire to a "major brand" consulting career.Last but not least, in my view (and I'd welcome hearing any views to the contrary) the part-time MBA has to go. A full-time MBA from a top school could certainly open some doors for you with consulting firms, given you'd be graduating a couple of years from now when the market will be more buoyant. But I can't believe that one can do justice to a demanding consulting career and be working evenings and weekends towards a part-time MBA too. I think the idea of a candidate wanting to attempt this would put a consulting employer off. So in my opinion this needs to be abandoned - or upgraded to a full-time course.Hope this helps Regret - it sounds like you're in quite a rut there, hopefully 2010 can become the year that you take your first steps into a consulting career.Tony RestellTop-Consultant.com

Hi Tony,thank you very much for your answer (I am glad you posted a comment on my case!). Actually what you say regarding the (perceived) value of PhD in Central Europe is really true, not just in consulting but , in general, in industry (I am writing from Germany). Pursuing higher education means, however, longer time at the university and a later start in the job market (we are talking of years of difference when we compare peers from UK or France; this is a drawback of the school system in some European countries). I have very good academics and was never "late" with my studies. However I got my first job when I was 29 years old, what makes me old to enter in colsultancy (I see young people in the early twenties in this forum who have already been confronted with challgening projects/roles in consultancies; from my side I can offer management experience and project management experience in industry, valuable points but still none daily contacts with executives/clients as the guys in consultancies do). About the MBA I fully agree: consultancy and part-time MBA are not a good option together. However, with no business background, I felt I had to move on and start this programme, to expand my horizon and to better understand how an organization works. I can still switch to a full-time mode and speed up the completion, if necessary. I honestly chose this option because of my age (with 25-26 y it would have been different...). Anyway thanks for your advice, I will try to make the best out of it.

Hi “Regards”I’m afraid I have to agree with Tony; the Warwick part-time MBA is hard work and would impact significantly on your ability to manage the workload as a new MC.However far worse than this (and I speak as an experienced interviewer/hirer at a number of MC firms), your choice of an MBA as a solution indicates your “institutionalisation”.Your problem is that you have spent too much time in education. Some of this is a symptom of the German system rather than personal choice, but the bottom line is that in comparison to your European competitors for new MC positions, you have too much education time and not enough private sector work time.Your response? More education! Sorry friend, but you cannot sober up by drinking more.

Hi Mr Cool,what would you advise as experienced recruiter to soembody with no formal education in business that does not want to be trapped in a merely technical role? The MBA should just help the move (the scope is not to list another education programme on my CV).

Hi Regret. Many entry level graduates to MC firms do not have formal business degrees – they study law, languages, social sciences, maths, etc. Good academic degrees from strong universities show that a wet-behind-the-ears graduate is at least dedicated and capable of learning. Those that do have a “business” degree are often surprised by how little of it they use in the first five years of their professional life. A lack of business education is not your problem.Look up Ansoff’s Matrix and apply it too yourself as if you were a company. Your industry is “the scientific community” and your product is you – “a research team leader”.You can either anchor yourself in the scientific community, but take a role that gets you away from the research life that you dislike (could you get a job selling commercial products into the scientific community?) or you can anchor yourself in research but get away from the scientific community (would a commercial product development job suit you better?). Investing in an MBA will not allow you to diversify away from both anchors at the same time, particularly into a competitive area like management consulting at a time when recruiting levels are very low and competition is very high. You would be amazed how many CV’s I see where people have done an MBA about five years ago and now they are doing more or less exactly what they would have been doing had they not done it. It may yet be a great investment or a mond-expanding experience, but unless you come top of the class at Harvard, LBS, INSEAD, etc it is not a passport to a total change in career.

Mr Cool,Thanks for your sensible points.I agree that a good (but not top tier) MBA which is backed up with relevant experience might lead nowhere and not increase the chances of getting into MC. A career in industry would remain the other option for me, even though less appealing to my eyes. I just think that MC develops an individuum as a professional and as a person to an extent that no industry position can bring: the fast pace environment and the exposure to different projects/industries/kinds of people is something you do not find in a special industry (even I enjoy plenty of international contacts). While I could experience what leading people and managing (rather complex) projects means, I think I missed the exposure a MC can give (of which I have just read but that I cannot judge from my own experience). MC takes out more but gives more as well.

Not much - if anything - I can add to or disagree with from Tony and Mr Cool, except that it's time for a (brutal) reality check Regret, and you won't like it.I suspect Mr Cool is on the right lines here - my sense though is that you are yet another individual who has simply decided they want to do something too later and with too little forethought. A PhD is a major undertaking and to admit this as being the 'fatal error' at best shows a lack of research on your part, that you undertook it when some basic due diligence on your part would have revealed that you would be graduating behind your peers, and therefore lose several years of working experience in the real world. Sometime we just have to accept that in the real world not everything is open to us: I would like to ride MotoGP professionally rather than be a HH, but at 36 I suspect its too late, and I don't have experience of riding competively (aside of dodging the odd police car and kid in a hatchback). So I can sit here and try to get myself in somewhere, leading nowhere, in MotoGP, or do what is open to me. And that's what you need to do. Accept that you have probably left it too late, the p/t MBA will at best be a sticking plaster on the problem (and an expensive one at that) and leave it there. Plenty of other careers out there.Here is the alternative: you take your p/t MBA at considerable cost financially, not to mention what the immense workload plus working f/t will do to your relationships and health (mental and physical). Graduated but on paper far off the pace and with no real commercial experience, you will either wind up picking up pieces of 'consulting' work here and there and drift into some shadowy interim career of being average but cheap, or you will work your way into some sort of semi-consulting role with a strong research basis on the promise/hope of getting client facing, it won't happen and you'll be here again, only now bitter and disillusioned with the choices you made.Think again Regret, turn back and do something more adjacent to where you are now.Or I could just have said I agree with Mr Cool... would have been a shorter post..

Mars A Day,I am aware that not everything is possible. I hope I will find something in which I can use my skills/background/strenght. I agree that a good position in industry is better than a mediocre position in consulting (there are good managers out there that are not coming from consulting as well). I still believe I can spend this MBA in industry, though. I hope I am not wrong.

There are also consulting companies specialising in product development, I think PRTM at least.Management consulting is not anymore what it used to be (career and compensation wise), maybe you are being to optimistics about it and too pessimistic about your current position. A change of company inside industry could help...

Hi there,I left uni with a Masters in biochem after realising a career in research wasn't for me. I had no trouble applying to grad schemes (no experience expected) as long as I was clear about my reasons for the move. I work for a large MC company in the strategy team and a number of people on our grad scheme have joined with PhDs. If you are willing to do 1-2 years at the bottom of the pile then you should be ok. Your previous experience should help you then progress faster than a grad straight from uni with a Bsc.Also, have a look for firms with specialist life sciences practices - they will be interested in a PhD for sure!Good luck!Fellow biochemist

Hi there, in your opinion will industry experience make a difference? Experience means older, though and the age counts.

HiJus realise i misread your age - saw it as 29, not 29 +3.5 years. At 29 you would have been able to come in the grad scheme route (i know people who have), but beyond 30 it would be diffcult and you would probably find it hard work being thrown in with a bunch of 21 year olds.Your best bet is probably to look for companies with life sciences / healthcare practices and look to come in as a Consultant grade (one above entry level and where you would be after 3.5 years in a consultancy). We take on industry people at a range of grades - e.g. a medical doctor to our healthcare practice.Your experience will mean that you have developed useful soft skills, team management etc but you will obviously need to be brought up to speed on consultancy skills. Most firms will be happy to do this if you are the right person - usually with intensive training / onboarding, year round training and on the job learning (hence bringing you in as a relatively junior grade). If you leave it much longer, you will probably find this gets increasingly difficult. I would spend some time researching such firms, talk to recruitment agencies and talk to any friendly contacts you haveOnce you start applying and talking to companies, you will get useful feedback on your chances. You will feel better once you start and are making some practical steps towards changing your situationBC

Hi Biochemist,thanks for the advice. It would be good to get in touch by email (I think you have the closest background to mine among the people who posted a comment on this topic). How can I contact you?

My two cents:I am a physician that went to a top-tier business school and then joined a top-tier consulting firm.Having now been there for some time I am looking to move into industry, where there is every opportunity to do exactly the same type of interesting projects that I do in consulting, but without all the crap that consulting entails. I think that maybe you are seeing the grass over here as being much greener, and perhaps it genuinely is for you, but consulting is not the only show in town when it comes to interesting projects.I agree with the above that you need to have a bit of a re-think and come up with something a bit more structured than your current plan, in which the problem is the PT MBA - it is just not going to help you achieve your goals. Put quite bluntly, you would be a more attractive candidate to my firm applying as a scientist with no commercial experience than applying from a PT MBA at a lesser ranked business school. If you apply from that position you will be ranked against the doctors and scientists that are on full-time MBAs at better schools and you won't get interviewed. I should state, I guess, that this will be the case at my firm, and I can't speak for any others.If I was you I would:1) Identify and apply to consulting firms that like PhDs and have healthcare practices. McKinsey is one. If you find that you are getting nothing from this process you can be sure that adding a PT MBA from Warwick will not change anything2) At the same time start to investigate lateral moves within your own firm to identify whether there is any chance to take on more commercial roles - this is the slow and steady low-risk route3) At the same time start to investigate the likelihood of doing a better ranked PT MBA in your current job - perhaps the LBS EMBA? This is the painful route4) If all of the above fail go to INSEAD as soon as possible as it is a one year course and you could be done in your early thirties, which is still not too old. I would start the application process tomorrow. This is the rapid high-cost higher risk route, but still eminently doable if your 3.5 years of work are good enoughIf you are serious about this, and you seem to be, then you need to do it properly by investing your time and effort appropriately, and I am not sure that your current plan does that at allHope that helps