I am considering doing this and wanted to know what the culture change was like?

Have you been offered a job? If you have congratulations. Be prepared for a couple of drops down the org chart. They will consider you to need to be completly retrained in consulting. Expect longer hours (an extra 2 or 3 a day) and less selling IT services

I have thought about this move as well and did some investigations:the major drawback for me was that I could not see where i could fit in in the BAH pyramid: In order to come in as an associate you will need significant experience in the area you are applying for, I would expect ACN senior manager level. however, if you are relatively new to ACN and you manage to move to BAH with maybe 1, 2 years of ACN experience this could be a good idea and you could join on the first or second level of the the BAH pyramid.but I agree with big jump: be prepared for hard work, the hours with acn seem long compared to other big IT consultancies, but they are a piece of cake compared to the strat houses.

i would expect to come in at senior associate being a new senior manager in accenture (9 years relevant exp). my years of experience seem consistent with what BAH look for at senior associate (SA has some internal levels too).i would have thought that accenture has more hours as you are delivering large IT projects in silly timescales, whereas in a strat house you're just putting together docs, decks and speaking to the client who leaves the office at 6pm sharp.

This guy is in for a SERIOUS shock when he joins BAH. Seriously mate - do a bit more research.

read some of the threads here about hours at BAH. Particularly those that discuss accenture and BAH staff being on projects at the same time. You could be in for an unpleasant suprise.Use your consulting experience and consider this scenario. You are advising CXO at a company. You meet them at 4pm. the meeting lasts 2 hours and they have requested a complete re work of the proposal by 8am. When do you think it gets done?

ok guys - thanks. i have read the other threads but the views are often mixed and, importantly, just speculation.i take it from BAH'er, that the advice is from the 'ground'?i dont mind hard work - well, it seems to get rewarded better at BAH than it does at ACN.do people at BAH help each other? what about annual reviews? is it a 'fair' process? unlike accenture where you get 'laddered' and your success is dependant on how loud the person representing you can speak.

Yes, I know what I'm talking about.Hard work is one thing... but are you prepared for the long, long hours (think seriously about this)? Sitting in the basement of some mega corporation's foreign office with 4 other guys you've only known for a week until the wee small hours of the morning, Mon-Fri?Annual reviews are very structured, but in my view can be easily manipulated via selective listening by the person doing the appraisal. If the big guys like you, you'll do just fine. But it's hard to stand out in BAH - even if you're good, the general calibre is VERY high so in relative terms you'll just be mediocre. Do not underestimate this! There is a great team atmosphere - truly some of the best people I have ever known - but occasionally you do get the odd idiot who views colleagues as competitors and is only too willing to plunge the knife in during your appraisal (360 deg is used at BAH). The pay is first rate, BAH will not let you down on this front, but for many the lifestyle is something they can't take for more than a year or two.

so how long have you been at BAH for? sounds like the long hours are the biggest point of contention from what you say.i have checked the profiles for a number of Principles and it appears they have families - how do they view long hours? i read somewhere that its one of the best places to work for mothers (likely USA), but again somewhat countering the culture of long hours.do you know whether BAH negotiate on starting salary?what about the jump from SA to P? is it a matter of maintaining £5m of annual business or are there other factors?finally, the 25% bonus. is that an 'up to 25%' - the max determined on how you meet your targets? is it often that you may go a year without any bonus?thanks for replying.

don't worry about bonuses, bah won't let you downthey will not however budge much on starting salary unless you change gradesthe working mothers thing?? hahahahaha, great i suppose if you think working long hours all over the world is consistent with this. ok if you're an admin in mclean but another thing if you're based in london but shipped to hong kong for a year.re: SA to P - it's more about job management at that level tho you do need to be able to sell work. Are you actually billing £5M each year at present? if so and if you can take this to BAH with you, I'd be pressing to join as a partner

billing around £1m a year, but dont expect to take clients with me, just take experience. once at BAH, i meant, do i need to be 'owning' around £4-5m of client business to make the case for Principle.take your point about the working mother thing. lets say i did go to hong kong for a year, then do BAH support taking your partner with you?i have been given a quote for a SA starting salary. it is actually almost identical to what i am earning, but the bonus at BAH much higher. i would ideally ask for a raise in base salary, but from what you say there wont be much luck in doing this?if i did move though, it wont be primarily for initial jump in salary, more the promise of earling a lot more if I am successful at BAH. not sure if you know but once SM at accenture it is a very long road to actually earning significantly more - and you could probably earn more elsewhere doing the same thing (cons of a public company etc)

billing £1M a year is one thing... can you honestly say you and you alone "sold" that £1M of work?if so, you should be pressing to go in as a principal. if you can sell and own £5M then i wouldn't settle for anything less than partner. heck, i'd set up my own firm if i could pull in £5M of business a year.re: travel - BAH are pretty flexible about paying for stuff so yes i'd expect you could take your partner with you. if not, they're giving you an ultimatum - either live with BAH or live with your partner. which would they honestly expect you to choose?

i get the impression you are a disgruntled employee - am i right?as for 'selling' £1m of business, its in the traditional consulting way - client issues RPF, i lead response team, hussle-bussle, end up selling. nothing door knocking about it.doing the same as a one man band is extremely different unless you have clients committed to buy your services, which is difficult as a one-man band anyway, let alone having to go through stringent RFP processes.anyway, we're digressing now.thanks for your input.

any old fool can win work from an RFP providing they have a half-decent team to sell... how much of BAH's high-level strategy work do you think comes in this way?

i suspect bah take the 'upsell' approach - already in the doors, generating sales through speaking to the right people (with the right budgets). i've done this a couple of times on the back of the RFP wins - remember its a case of winning a client sale, being physically there, before you can take the upsell approach.

Hi Anon. have you received a formal offer yet. i have a verbal offer but nothing in writing for 2 weeks now. On a secondary note. how do BAH work with regards to salaries. Do they try to bring you in on as low as possible a salary, the same as you are on now, or offer a salary that is in line with where you fit in the organisation

i am hoping for a verbal offer week after next and hopefully a swift one in writing...i am a bit confused as to their salary strategy as i keep hearing mixed things - perhaps BAH'er can clarify.i know they have salary bands certainly for associate and senior associate - i am being considered for the lower SA salary band - not bad, but not really an increase either.have you chased hr re your offer?

i expect bah will make you an offer based on which level they bring you in at. they probably won't give a monkey's what you were earning previously, all they will be concerned about is whether you can do the jobIf you get an offer as an entry level SA (SA1), then the salary is going to be good but not amazing. the bonus will be good however. what REALLY makes the difference is the incredible rate at which it will be ramped up as you work your way through the ranks... and this can happen VERY quickly indeed. so i suppose it's a bit of a gamble, do you stick with a guaranteed good salary at ACN with a bit of job security and reasonable hours/travel, or do you go to a firm which has an up or out culture but where you can be earning a mint if you manage to hold on tight and hang in there for a few yearsSA1 is the entry level for being a senior member of the team by the way

Not chased him yet. they seem to want to deliberately delay everything which worries me a little

To the Accenture employee. May I ask what your experience is in Accenture that enabled you to move to BAH? Were you in strategy here for example?

hello - no, not in SITE, but in a specialist technology area, which in itself provides enablement of strategies. i have worked with the SITE team on a number of projects though. sorry to be cryptic, but any more information would reveal my group and make it obvious to some who i am.

btw, i should add that i tend to work on short projects at accenture - weeks rather than months. nearly all work in based in london and i work at least one day a week from home - many time 2/3 days a week. i assume there will be a total change in workstyle for bah.

why on earth do you want to leave? it sounds like the perfect job

i know what you are saying, but i have reached the highest point i can get to at accenture both in terms of level and pay - i am seeing hot shots pass me. my strengths are in stategy and i am applying for a position to develop a new area of bah's business - if i work really hard at it i would double my current salary in a couple of years.i guess it boils down to money. but i have to admit the lifestyle is quite laid back for me at accenture.

I would agree with that reasoning. An easy life sounds great at first, but lets be honest very quickly gets boring. I am the same as you I want to push myself and get as far as I can and work with my best. Hence joining BAH. Obviously the opportunity to make good money is a nice bonus :-)I am a little worried at the moment that they are just touting about for people though and that even though I have a verbal offer it may all fall through due to no work.

yes - i also have that risk, which i guess is always present when being tasked with starting up a new area of business. obviously the rewards are much higher.whats interesting is that bah are trying to rapidly grow - clearly they must feel they have a big enough market in the uk...but as you say, if there isn't then it could be just like walking of the edge of a plank. don't know about you, but apart from the MBBB there isn't much else out there apart from accenture - if things dont work out at bah then i'll be stuffed as couldn't really go back to accenture (even though they'd leave doors open for me)!

btw, i also get the impression that there is no structure to the interview process - some say meet 3 people in one day, some say 4, some say about 5. nothing written, may get a verbal case study, will meet random people in organisation etc. all very confusing.how was your interview process?

Anon, what about Deloitte? I work for accenture but a lot of people i work with say they'd like to move there later in their career as they can make far more as a partner than at s.exec within accenture.

4 interviews. Each an hour long. Either 2 on one day 2 on another or all 4 on one day. Final 2 are with partners. All the same format. Initially a cv discussion then a verbal case. Nothing written or presented. All very friendly and informal

sheesh, some people are never satisfied...!You have a cosy little job on a fricking good £100K or so salary yet it's still not enough??? Where do you get your energy and drive from?? What do you eat? Maybe I should start eating some of the same.If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, do you have kids/wife etc?? I just don't understand how or why anyone would/could not be content with a job like you already have???Also where do you get your self confidence from? You sound a little bit self-important but I could do with some of that too... how do you do it??

sheesh, some people are never satisfied...!You have a cosy little job on a fricking good £100K or so salary yet it's still not enough??? Where do you get your energy and drive from?? What do you eat? Maybe I should start eating some of the same.If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, do you have kids/wife etc?? I just don't understand how or why anyone would/could not be content with a job like you already have???Also where do you get your self confidence from? You sound a little bit self-important but I could do with some of that too... how do you do it??

Don't know if you live in london but 100k, especially for the 8/9 yrs of hard work it takes to get to senior manager level, isn't exactly an obscene amount of money.

re deloitte - i have been approached by them a number of times and know the dept that i would fit in to very well - that includes the people there. there are far too many directors and i would be fitting in to a slot and doing what i currently do with little or no scope for moving upwards. the structure is very hierachical there and it would take several years to establish myself. it would truely be a lateral move. take your point re partner salaries, but the said area already has a partner that will not let anyone through the gate. btw, a few people left accenture to joing deliotte and they came back! says it all.re 11 - my drive to do this: yes i do have a wife and 2 young kids and i am 32. i also have a mortgage and pay for nursery fees, and will be paying for schooling soon. without getting in to all the detail, being on 100k gets me through but without any saving for the future. 100k is not as much as it seems and i feel i have the potential to do more (whats wrong with that?), which could be fulfilled by the bah opportunity.i think you should accept people have different levels of drives and different wants from life - e.g. some like 2 big holidays a year, nice cars etc (i personally dont).

I hope you don't mind me asking these questions, but I'm genuinely interested because I just don't understand the situation.From what you have said, your situation is as follows:- 32 years old, earning around £100K (so let's call that £5,400 a month after tax)- wife and 2 kids. you pay for nursery fees, so I assume the wife works. Let's say she earns £30K and the nursery fees are £10K a year. That's another £1,000 in the bank each month.- you don't spend huge amounts of money each year on holidays, cars, etc.So... £6.5K each month for a 32 year old... "not bad" is an understatement. Yet you say you're left with little/no money each month to save. How on earth can this be?What do you spend it on?? Even if a whopping £2K goes on a mortgage, and you eat out a lot and leave the heating on all day so spend say a masssive £1.5K on general bills, that still leaves £3K by my reckoning!!!Where does it all go??? You are literally rolling in cash yet only just making ends meet? I don't understand!!

wife doesn't work, mortgage 2.1k, holidays? tax, bills, repaying loans etc. trust me there isn't much left

111,Just as work expands to fill the available timeframe, I find that family expenditure expands to fill the available net monthly income. I can sympathise with anon. I'm 33, married, have a young child (pre-school) and a net monthly income of £6700. Yet I still find it difficult to save any money. Life in this country is expensive, even without having excessive/luxurious tastes. And I do not play keepy-uppey with the Jones.

forgot to mention nappies and food - never underestimate that!also fixed rate mortgage comes to an end in a couple of weeks, so expecting to pay an extra £400 a month.anyway, not sure why i am divulging all this info, but yes, i wouldn't mind earning more. i mean if everyone thought that 100k was enough and no need to move, then when the CIOs, CEO etc retire, who will take their place?!

ok, wife doesn't work, so you're pulling in £5,400 each month after tax. And I assume you get various perks like a company car and pension paid for on top of all that.You say you spend 2.1K on the mortgage... so I assume your mortgage is around £325K or so. At first I thought 2.1K was high, but I can understand how you might need to borrow this much in order to buy a family home.But even then you're still left with £3.3K each month.Take off a very generous £1.5K for general bills/groceries etc, and that leaves you with £1.8K (after tax). Budget £200/month for a really good holiday and you're still left with £1,600. Where can it all possibly go???My first thoughts are... how much (and why!) are you paying for nursery fees if you don't mind me asking? If your wife isn't working, why do you need to put the kids in a nursery?The next point is are you planning to send the kids to a private school? With a mortgage that big, I'd be trying to keep costs down to a minimum. I know your kids are obviously extremely important to you and obviously you want the best for them, but state schools really aren't that bad you know!I know these are really personal questions but I'd be genuinely interested to see a breakdown of how £5.4K each month after tax can just get frittered away. It's a BIG salary - easily spent I know, but you say you're living pretty frugally so where on earth does it all go???Same to the other anon - £6.7K??? How can you spend that much each month without living the life of a king??

I suppose where I'm coming from is that I earn a mere fraction of what you earn, yet have a decent lifestyle... 31 yrs old, wife who doesn't work, 2 kids, 4 bed semi-detached house in a decent area with 19 years left on the mortgage, 2005 Toyota, 2 holidays/year, etc. and I have to pay for my own pension because my employer is stingy like that! If I earnt what you earn, I'd be saving about £3K a month!!!!

Yet one more thought... I also understand fully why you want to earn more etc and particularly if you think you're capable of getting it - it's human nature. But why the imperative? You have a cosy and stable job, reasonable hours, not much travel, and a BIG salary. I for one would be more than content with that... why fix something that ain't broken?

it is very rare for BAH to hire straight in at SA level. Much less someone from Accenture, who they would consider would need full re-training. Look, it could happen but, especially for someone with more of an IT than strategy background, these seems like an unlikely move.

mortgage was closer to 380k.nursery more for childs development - its quite difficult keeping them entertained at home.by wife not working ensures house gets looked after, dinner on table, breakfast etc.10% of my sal goes in to share options - so i guess thats some kind of saving. i put a small amount into a pension, so more saving. i guess its not as bad as i may have made it seem, but no way am i seeing a left over of a grand a month. work being done on house etc saps up money.catchment area schools are very poor - i am pro-state school (went to ones myself), but it looks like we have no option but to consider private and for 2 kids that comes to 30k per year. they are not there yet, but definitely need to provision.i do live relatively frugally - although you'd think someone on 100k could splash out quite a bit...trust me, it is not like that in my case. yes, i would like a nice car one day to complement the people carrier, but i wouldn't want to take out another loan and getting 15k together in cash is a big uphil struggle.mortgage is definely the biggest killer - only bought the house last year and its not particularly big, esp if we decide for a 3rd kid, so then have to factor in an extension or moving again. now a decent family home in a decent area aint going to come cheaper than 500k - thats 5 times my salary!although work life is cosy, it is getting hard as motivation is going down in current environment. if i stick around at this level for a few more years 100k wont be much - most managers below me are on 80k - its a norm for a city salary in consulting - have a look at the salary survey on this site.i know i am not alone here.

re bah hiring at SA level. i have heard that before.but the growth plans that bah has means that they have to take in SAs - there aren't many suitable people in the industry with the right skills. if they hired everyone at associate or consultant then their pyramid model wont work.accenture had to do the same thing: wanted rapid growth and they hired across all levels to maintain pyramid and that meant compromise of old traditions of low balling.

why bigger salary? not because i cant make ends meet - we've established i can. but because i want to save loads and retire well off and hopefully early. i just cant see myself working 'til the age of 65 or 68!retiring early and spending life on a beach like the pre-IPO accenture partners does sound appealing. if not that, then at least going till i am 45 and then changing career to teaching or something.

things are indeed changing but the old mindset remains. They just do not value Accenture backgrounds that much.

ok, I think I understand this better now. Some more thoughts on the situation:380K mortgage... wow. Jobs aren't guaranteed for life, and although I'm sure you're highly marketable and obviously you can always move to a cheaper place if needed, just think about that for a moment... personally I'd be finding it difficult to sleep at night knowing I have to continue paying that off for the next 20 years or so (I'm assuming it's a 20 or 25 yr mortgage?). That in its own right is a BIG ball and chain which will prevent any downshifting to being a teacher within the forseeable future unless other things change, although I understand in your case it may well be a necessary one.30K per year private education... YIKES! Do you REALLY want yet another ball and chain like that? What's 30K before tax deducations... another 50K or so you need to be earning just to finance an education? And you'll need to be paying this for at least 10 years if you don't want disruption... Then if kiddy no. 3 comes along it goes up to £75K a year? Personally I'd sell up and move to an area where houses are more affordable and the state schools are better... it's still possible to get a good 4 bed house within the catchment area of good schools and within reasonable commuting distance of london for under £400K if you look in the right places.I suppose what I'm thinking overall is that maybe you're focusing on the income side of the equation rather than costs. Why not save yourself the stress of having to maintain such a high income by trimming down on a few of the outgoings?Knowing that I have to maintain £100K to cover everyday living expenses/mortgage for 20 yrs or so, plus another £50K or so for education for at least 10 years into the future would give me a heart attack! I know I'm making assumptions here and if you can do it then that's great but why lock yourself in to such a stressful situation?? And if it doesn't stress you out, then I could REALLY do with some advice from you about stress management.

Yikes 111, you really want this chap tolive on 100k don't you?I say go for it, i fully appreciate your situation, you have very sensible reasons for moving and to be honest, i won't be sitcking around for senior exec either. In fact, I'm more likely to do an MBA and change to finance for all the reasons listed in this thread.

111, It is not just about money only. If you are not feeling happy with the work and some feeling is nagging at you always that you can do much bigger and better that you are doing then you are not happy and all these calculations does not make much sense.I think this whole concept of I am earning enough so I dont need to grow is a bit awkward. I personally will never be happy if I have the feeling that I am getting enough challanges

to add , it is much more stressful working in a stagnant environment then working more hours...It is individual views but that is what I think

private schools = 15k per pupil per year.380k mortgage is the not that high given london average house price is 300k and family house price is higher than that.on the plus side, the work i have had done to the house has increased its value by 175k (after a 15k spend) - yes managed to bag a bargin in a good area!the idea to earn more is to pay the morgage off in under 25 years, whilst still maintaining some kind of a lifestyle...

Unless you're working on a factory production line or are an office junior who is told what to do and how to do it, then it must be possible to put some kind of intellectual challenge into the job right?? Surely at that level of seniority, you can set yourself targets and approach things in ways that can make pretty much anything interesting?

to expand a bit futher, i would rather work longer hours than constantly worrying about keeping my chargeability up and not getting a Below when ranked against other SMs who are glued to SEs. The problem is that the longer i stay at accenture the less employable i get. i currently have a hot skill which is enough to grown an area in a company like bah and the rest is all history.

re: the education costs - the 50K was a very rough estimate of much much gross salary you need to fund 30K of education (i.e. taking tax into account).Also you now have a house worth roughly £550K? You can definitely get a good 4 bed detached house in a good commutable area with good state schools nearby for that kind of price!The paying off the mortgage idea is a good one tho in my view and i fully appreciate that you might be in need of a new work challenge etc.I feel like a total under-achiever in comparison

re: chargability concerns - maybe an industry role is more suitable, eg with a bank or something? if you think chargeability is important at ACN, believe me you aren't gonna believe it at BAH

Get your under-exploited as* into contracting! If you've got a hot skill, people will be willing to pay you for it. Look on Jobserve for what your skill is likely to command in the current market. A decent daily rate for a 3/6/9 month, possibly longer contract, is likely to make a huge dent in your mortgage. Spend a couple of years caning it on this contracting lark and you'll be laughing; house paid off with a nice little nest-egg.

Also, if the kids aren't of schoola ge and you don't mind relocating, shift to Scottish office. You'll live like a ruddy king.

the difference is, i think, at bah i will be tasked to develop my own area of business.at accenture there is too much bum fighting over the same business.

bah are very good like that, if they think you can develop more business then the door will be wide open for you to get on and do it. but if you don't deliver... BAM. Also as an SA it's quite likely you'll have random partners from munich or other far flung places of the world like new york giving you other things to do. it's a very intense atmosphere, no coasting here...

111, are you referring to the culture in TC or CB?

CB. Are you thinking of joining TB???? TB is VERY different to CB.....ITG within the CB side might fit your profile tho?

If you even think of joining BAH, you’d better do your research properly or you’ll be in “BAM”land.If you’re asked to help out on a presentation you’d better get the animation right in the deck otherwise – KAZZAM.If you’re asked to research a client – and you make even the tiniest of error – KABOOM.If you even hint that you have a relative, friend or neighbour who dares to own up to less than AAAA, Oxbridge 1st and Top Draw MBA – SMACKWtf is this place – a haven for superman fanatics? BAHers – you’re not the be all and end all. You work for MBBB. You’re a strat brat……..yawn….

animation in the deck? LOL!

111, ITG would be the area i join - and i take it that is a part of CB?whats the low down on ITG? i hear its less cut throat and people are valued more because they are harder to replace due to the skills they have?

Yes, ITG is on the CB side. Some people get it muddled up with TB because they don't understand the difference, but it's definitely 'proper' consulting work although does require a bit of techy knowledge.ITG is much less cut throat than some of the other practices. It's a nice place to be and I like the people who work there. In fact I think I'd go as far as to say it's by far the best practice to work for. They always have some really interesting work going on... I can't give details but I got involved in a few projects and liked it a lot.

oh ok - thanks for that - quite a relief to hear that after some of the other posts. it is aa challenging opportunity and one that i look forward to. having met some of the BAH people i can say they are less arrogant than the accenture ones i work with. there was one very arrogant BAH individual i came across once and he happened to be an ex-accenture person!

CB?? Consulting business?TB?? technology business?ITG?

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