Inputs : 14 yrs experience, 7.8 yrs in ACN, last level SM3 , did not make SE hence leftGot an offer today from Deloitte Consulting, they are stuck on offering me a Senior Manager level, they say we cannot hire at a Director levelMoney etc is well taken care of.....am in two minds.....expert comments invited !!!

how much did they pay you to move?

Total package 125k incl bonus

would you mind breaking up this package into basic, flex allowance and % of bonus?

Most people will just ask about £. Any chance at all you could describe what is putting you in 2 minds?

Not being offered a Director is a cause for concern, don't have much choice ....do you think a verbal promise of promoting you in 12-18 months should be taken with a pinch of salt ?

95k base, 10k allowances, 20% bonus

package looks good for SM.12-18 month promotion isn't that rare........if you really want to get director straight off you need to be able to say you can bring in a director amount of generated sales straight off the bat.between 1 and 2.5 million depending on which area you would be in. I'm guessing as your ACN it would either be TI or EA. If it's EA and you can bring that amount of business push hard on director.Pressure is on if you can't deliver that though

hi heavysnow,did they mention in your offer letter that you will get 20% bonus? or it is just a standard 20% which is available to all SMs and this % is not mentioned in your offer letter?

Not mentioned, only 'told' to me verbally

In terms of a 20% bonus, it would be safer to assume less even though it is what was verbally told to you. 20% is generally more aspirational at Deloitte. Very few get a maximum or near maximum bonus and in the boom years around 2007 across most grades it was only about 15% for about the top 5% in grade. It is more probable to get a c.10% bonus and 5% should not be unexpected given the distribution of bonuses.Personally I would cut the bonus at least in half or by three quarters and see if you would be happy with that total package. If that is the case then go for it.I certainly did know a Director hired directly and another who chose not to take up his offer. Both were partners at smaller firms and would have certainly thought they could bring a suitable level of opportunities with them. If you believe you can achieve this then push hard, but there is a step up in requirements between the grades

I have friends hired at Director level at Delboys and other Big4 and can confirm that they were under immediate pressure to bring in deals. One of them won himself a bit of a honeymoon period by being farmed out as an interim director at a client, but as soon as that came ot an end he was immediately under pressure again to bring in revenue.

I'm sorry but is it really that surprising that a director is under pressure to bring in revenue? At all the consultancies I've worked at all the SMs and above have been under serious 'pressure' to bring in revenue... In that they have targets to hit and if they miss those at the 2nd time of asking they are out of the door!

Hi HeavySnow - Congratulations on your offer. I have recently joined Accenture and I thought SMs get paid £100k or more. Is that a fair thinking?Though I am not answering your question - would be helpful if you could let me know how long it would take to get a SM in Accenture? I am at the moment 7 years experienced at a Consultant level. My aim is to become a SM in the next 6 years. Is that a fair aim?

It sounds a little odd - you left accenture as a 3rd year sm (and I assume you mean you were an m6 since noone uses the term SMx) because you didn't make SE (when it is very rare for someone to make it 1st time and even more so in this climate) and now you are contemplating joining another firm and putting yourself even further away from partner? Somethig doesn't add up. You should have given it 2-3 more years at ACN to try to make SE (or at least to have gven yourself the opportunity to have a greater track record of sales/bd that you could use to talk yourself into a director role).As for consultant, it depends, what months at level were you credited with? Even from c1 it is of course possible to get sm in that timescale, depends on if you are any good, the roles you do and a bit of luck. Plenty of people at ACN would have made sm from a1 within 7 to 8 years, financial climate is tougher these days tho.

It sounds a little odd - you left accenture as a 3rd year sm (and I assume you mean you were an m6 since noone uses the term SMx) because you didn't make SE (when it is very rare for someone to make it 1st time and even more so in this climate) and now you are contemplating joining another firm and putting yourself even further away from partner? Somethig doesn't add up. You should have given it 2-3 more years at ACN to try to make SE (or at least to have gven yourself the opportunity to have a greater track record of sales/bd that you could use to talk yourself into a director role).As for consultant, it depends, what months at level were you credited with? Even from c1 it is of course possible to get sm in that timescale, depends on if you are any good, the roles you do and a bit of luck. Plenty of people at ACN would have made sm from a1 within 7 to 8 years, financial climate is tougher these days tho.

Yeah, if you can't secure a director position with you cv externally, how were you hoping to make SE at ACN? Did you actively run a campaign for se or were you sitting back and hoping it would happen?

By SM3 I meant I spent 3 years as an SM and was told by my supervisor that you have an excellent case for making it to SE , in the moderation I got nicked by some others who did not have much to their credit bit had been SM's for 6-7 years.....my performance was stellar, I felt cheated....at Deloitte they are not respecting my experience and performance.....anyway ....life aint fair !!

Sounds odd, making SE is not like any other promotion, it isn't won or lost in 'moderation' it generally comes down to numbers (delivery and/or sales) and patronage. They dont just give it to people who have been around the longest, there are plenty of m7/8/9/10/11/12 in the uk firm who are testament to that. If you don't have the cv to convince deloitte

Sounds odd, making SE is not like any other promotion, it isn't won or lost in 'moderation' it generally comes down to numbers (delivery and/or sales) and patronage. It isnt just about ratings and they dont just give it to people who have been around the longest, there are plenty of m7/8/9/10/11/12 in the uk firm who are testament to that. If you don't have the cv to convince deloitte to get you in as a director (specifically proven sales ability) it isn't too surprising you didn't make lor4 after only 3 years as an sm.What specifically in your performance made you think you would get it?

Well here are my 2 major achivements ......single handedly drove sales that won 12 mill in sales in 2008 and 19 in 2009.....was playing the rolw of an SE, with Deloitte the issue is they asled me can you get those clients to us ! I cannot .....its not a supermarket... I can start a relationship but cannot gurantee sales just like that...

you said you didn't make SE in ACN hence, left so what have you been doing since you left ACN? Were you working elsewhere when you got Deloitte offer or you have been unemployed since you left ACN if latter is the case then you are not in bargaining position mate.

Anon - You are right, I took some time off to 'reboot' and did free lance consulting, taught kids computers .......now that I am 'rebooted' I wanted to get back, I also want to know from the group whether joining a CIO department as a corporate IT exec is going to pay as well as a Dot or ACN or CG.....

Did they offer you M6 Grade as a Senior Manager? if M4 is Manager Grade then do you know which grade is M5?

M4 is manager (or Associate Director in the rest of the firm). M5 is Senior Manager. M6 is Director. M5 is a grade that is only known within the consulting side of the business and not the wider firm

M5....... Sr Manager

heavysnow,then how come on M5 Deloitte is paying you £10K in allowance!! On M4 and M5 the allowance is only £6700... that doesn't sum up with your £125K package.

i know people in Deloitte who joined at director level from ACN who were L4 SE and others who were SM Director is a Sales role in Deloitte - this is not the case for SM in ACN. The firm is also v. different and the idea that you can join from ACN and get promoted in 12 - 18 months is unrealistic. You need a network and sponsorship (including support from other parts of Deloitte to get promoted to director)

as you found in interview, Deloitte want And need directors to be able to originate sales - ACN does not really prepare you for this at all. You tend to be leading and supporting sales at ACN

i got 10k allowance ! maybe as an exception....there were hard nosed negotiations ...had to fight for every penny....

My understanding is that Deloitte only offers Director positions to people who can spell "Deloitte".

I agree with “anon also” above. Dellllllloitte (tee hee) is very different to Accenture. The latter routinely sell teams of relatively generic IT and/or PMO teams into long term engagements where they act almost as an alternative to contractors. Deloitte provides much smaller teams, based (supposedly) on specific expertise, knowledge, etc and at rates that are often double that of Accenture. Successfully selling system integration teams to IT management does not prepare you for cold-selling teams at 1500+ a day in to executive level clients.

It's not an either/or. Deloitte ALSO "routinely sell teams of relatively generic IT and/or PMO teams into long term engagements where they act almost as an alternative to contractors". Witness Shell, London2012, NHS, Hull Council, and many more. Those are just the ones where I personally know DC consultants who have been on the same project for over 2 years. One even has put her kid into the client's local school because there's no sign of the project ending soon.

@Pendant - Are you unemployed ?

Is the package not lower than ACNs? 95k sounds about 10-20k less than an M6 at ACN no?

Agree with the DC one on long term engagements - you need to be wary of that and look after #1 even if you p*ss some people off otherwise you'll be stuck on jobs for 1/2 years, i got off last one by positioning myself as PMO so obviously got flagged as chuffing expensive for a PMO (Snr Mgr grade) and released accordingly - but you're there soley to keep the billing rolling so be warned.