Dear all,I am in need of some advice and I would appreciate your comments.I finished university some 2+ years ago and have been working in industry, in a respected multinational company in its sector. I enjoy what I do, I like my colleagues and wouldn't mind continuing working here for a while.I have been offered a business analyst job to join one of the MBBs in continental Europe. The issue is that I have recently been promoted in my current role and the offer from the MBB firm, although decent enough for a BA position is, salary-wise, nearly 50% of what I am currently making. In addition to this, the MBB firm and my current organization would sponsor me towards a top-class MBA if a perform well.I am very interested in joining one of the MBBs because of the prestige, the exposure to interesting projects and most importantly, the learning experience.Taking into account that I am still very junior, should I even take into account financial issues or work/life balance issues (of course, no chance of doing 9-6 every day at MBBs) when making my decision?I am being unrealistic for even taking this into account?To make it clear upfront, I don't mind the long hours and I am not afraid of working hard.I will really appreciate your views on this,Best, Frank

Take the BA position at MBB!It will put a very strong brand name on your CV and I am sure you will be able to leverage the brand to get into a higher paid job in the future.You shouldn't be too concerned with money and/or work life balance when you are so young (I guess 24-26 yo?)!

Don't do it unless you really really want to be a long-term consultant.If you're making 2x BA salary right now, you will need to spend 2 years as a BA, then take 2 years to do an MBA before coming back as an Associate, making, you guessed it, less than 2x BA salary.In the same period of time within your current firm you have advanced nicely. So after 5 years or so of leaving, if you're lucky, you would be able to come back at the same level you would have been if you'd never left.The only way MBB makes sense for you is if money really doesn't matter (but it should - you could collect downpayment on a house if you stay), lifestyle doesn't matter (but it should - people underestimate its importance before entering consulting), and you want to be a consultant for the long haul (~10 years) - then it would probably pay off.

Agree with anon: do it for a couple of years, get the experience and name on the cv and you can get into a much higher paid job in the future.I presume you're working in the UK at the moment, but would be joining the MBB in a market that is not Germany, is that correct? In that sense, I can understand why your salary is going to be just short of 50% of what you're on now (I'm sure if you were to join in the UK the salary gap would be a lot less, if you were to go to Germany you'd actually get a pay increase compared to what you're on now...)

Anon21Thanks for your comments.As a mater of fact, I do not want to be a long-term consultant, and would see myself returning to the industry where I am now in the future. Not necessarily in the near future, but perhaps in my mid-thirties (post Associate-Manager level at MBB).Salary-wise, only Managers at the MBB firm make as much as I am making now, so I am well aware of the fact that it would take me the best part of 5-6 years to get to my current level of earnings at MBB. Money isn’t a priority for me right now, although it maters up to a point. Lifestyle is important, but I am willing to make sacrifices, if I can imagine some payback return in the future. I value the potential learning experience a lot and the brand name on my CV. In fact, many executives in my industry come from MBBs and I am concerned that I will reach a plateau if I stay in the same company during the next few years (despite the fact that I’ve advanced nicely so far and my work is appreciated by management). Also, I am afraid I would regret to say no to MBB for the sake of money and lifestyle in my mid-twenties.Anon & CuriousThanks for the comments. I somehow believe that the experience and name on the cv would help me securing a higher paid job in the (arguably long) future.Curious, you’re right. I’m working in the UK and joining a EU market that is not Germany. UK BA’s at MBB would still be making a lower salary than my current one, but the gap would indeed be a less (but not a lot less!). For the sake of clarity, the cost of living in both cities (current and MBB’s location) is very similar. Only minor differences.Any other advice would be appreciated!

"Salary-wise, only Managers at the MBB firm make as much as I am making now, so I am well aware of the fact that it would take me the best part of 5-6 years to get to my current level of earnings at MBB. "I strongly doubt this: either you're confused on what the "Manager" level means in an MBBB, or you are alreay earning a very high salary.What is your current salary (+ any bonus) is?

Frank - have you considered calling up the MBB firm and seeing what scope there is for improving your current offer? I would share with them the promotion & rise you've just been awarded and then see what they can do to improve their offer.All consulting firms are well versed in dealing with "counter offers" - where they have to improve their offer to counter a competing offer that the candidate has received. The fact that your improved offer is from your existing employer rather than another potential employer is very compelling because it is based on actual performance on the job rather than a perception from interviews of what you are worth.If done in the right way, this should enhance your credentials with the MBB firm - and even if the outcome ends up being no improvement in their offer you would at least be joining them having laid down the marker that you are ambitious and expect swift career progression. I suspect though the more likely outcome is that they do do something to improve their offer and then you can join them without the reservations you currently have (which with time could turn into bitterness)All the bestTony RestellTop-Consultant.com

Curious,My current salary is £75,000 (plus 10%-15% bonus) plus diets (depending on projects and travelling, up to 25% of monthly salary).My understanding is that a junior manager at this MBB office would expect to make this much.Perhaps I am mistaken. I would actually like to be mistaken.Frank

Tony,Thank you very much for your advice. I think I should simply do that.I somehow believe that salaries for BAs are standard (everyone gets the same salary), but I guess it is only fair that I explain my situation. Oddly enough, my salary was never discussed during the interview process with them. I think that they didn’t expect that I would be earning so much compared to what they offered to BAs.I cannot think of any reason why they would take this badly. No matter whether they accept to increase their offer or not, at least I will make sure they know my current earnings.Thanks again,Frank

Hi Frank,I believe you should stay put. Your motivations around having the brand on your CV and the exposure and experience are all very valid. However, if you are already earning £75k+ in industry only 2 years out of Uni, I think you should be looking at continuing that trend, rather than start again from scratch. I'm in a very similar situation at the moment, (late 20's, currenlty industry, earning about the same, couple of offers on the table), and I was set on consulting until I started doing some more exploration into industry roles that might fit. I have now been approached by an industry employer with a 6fig offer. Now I have to think hard on what the 'brand and experience' is really going to do for me. Ultimately I want it to set my skills and CV apart from others and learn as much as possile on the way, ready for a return to industry in a few years. However, if I'm already very marketable in my industry, why should I go through the heartache of spending another 4-5yrs doing ball-breaking work just to earn close what I could earn now in industry. It all comes down to what it is you want out of your 20's! Personally, I already have a young family and I'm very happy, so I think MC might be something I say 'I considered it - but it wasn't for me'.Hope all goes well whatever path you take!

Dodge you're late 20s with a young family with 6figure offers on the table? Sloooooowwwwww doooowwwnnnnn - you're leaving the rest of us folk behind

Haha, 29 to be exact, and I didn't come out of the usual grad route, so my 'career' started at 18 (when my first wife got pregnant during my year out!) so I started early and have close on 11 years under my belt!That's why I'm recommending to the OP that he should stay put, as only 2 years out of uni and he's booking just under my current salary after 10 years graft! But you're right, maybe it is time to slow down, I've been noticing the grey hairs a little more recently.

Dodge,I appreciate your comments. I understand your motivations for not going down the MC route. You have a young family and very good earnings and if I were in your situation I would not be willing to put in the long hours required in MC.However, I somehow feel that it is kind of now or never for me: I join MBB now or I never will. I am sure that some years down the road I will want to buy a house, marry my girlfriend and start a family; and would certainly not join a MC firm then. Now I think I have the strength and the motivation to work hard(er) and may make sense to sacrifice in the short term to gain something in the long term.I am not sure if I am making sense. In addition to this, joining MC would certainly give me an exposure to other sectors of functions that I would not have in my current role. To what extent that is something useful to remain in my industry, I do not know, to be honest.Also, when I look at where top guys (C-level) from my industry come from, I see the odd guys coming all the way from the bottom, but a lot of them have done a stint at MBB and an MBA.Maybe this is a trend that will change, but that is something I do not know!Cheers,Frank

Tony, For your info, I presented my situation to HR and it didn’t quite work out as expected.I was told that there are very strict salary bands at this MBB firm and I was already at the very top of the band at my category.They also argued that I couldn’t join in at a higher category (i.e. Associate), because of my lack of MBA or comparable experience (at least 3-4 years of solid experience before joining as a Junior Associate), and even in that case, I would still have to reduce my salary a bit.They admitted that my case was “unusual” to say the least, but there wasn’t much they could do! Also, HR argued that they have had similar problems in the past, with senior people coming from high-earning countries or even other MBB offices.I guess this puts me where I started and to me the question is clear now: what is the real value of MBB (in terms of brand name, exposure, experience,…) and how much one should be willing to sacrifice to get there?It is hard to say….Your opinions would be appreciated.Thanks,Frank

Frank what is it exactly that you anticipate you will gain from a move to MBB, given your evident success to date? It is certainly not going to fast track you any faster than you already are, and in reality you are likely to be looking for an exit in a few years to cash in back to an industry role...and you guessed it, will land back exactly where you left once you allow for the drop on your remuneration and that you will need to square the circle that you left a good position and prospects to start all over again. MBB is not for everyone, nor is it the be all and end all even within consulting. My thinking is that having done very well in your current track you think you need to find somewhere/someway new to excel in, and MBB looks to be the highest hurdle you can find. My thinking is that you are probably already too good for MBB anyway. Stay on track in industry - plan on taking a yeat or two out in a few years to do a top MBA as the experience and curriculum will do you good, and then return to industry, or look at opportunities in the traditional post MBB environment - PE, corp dev etc. See your current experience as parallel to an MBB grounding and dont side track yourself with the glamour of MBB. And if you really have an itch to scratch, go do something sporty, learn a marital art, whatever, achieve something which is for you not for work.

Frank, Dodge, what industries are you in and what is your area of expertise?

"the glamour of MBB"Oh man, thanks for cheering up my day. LOL @ the glamour of working 70 hours per week, getting sent to foreign countries you don't want to be in, hardly ever being home, constant stress and travel, unrealistic deadlines, colleagues that come and go more often than you change your pants, spending 12 hours a day in front of your computer doing mind-numbing research, eating lunch at your desk, all-nighters, working for an hourly rate less than the admin staff and so on.

Frank,Absolutely have to agree with Mars A Day. MBB can be an excellent way to accelerate a career, or to gain a degree of polish. However you have (based on the limted info in your post) all the hallmarks of someone who has already surpassed what they can offer.Politely turn them down. Keep delivering on your current track and believe me, a) they’ll be back for you in five years time (but wiht a decent offer), or b) you’ll achieve all that you wish without having to go through them. Yes, there is a high percentage of ex-MBB in senior directorships at large firms, but there are more people who are NOT ex-MBB. Think of that?

Dave I was of course referring to the perceived 'glamour' of MBB - the brand, perception of being part of the elite etc, not the drudgery of actually grafting at an MBB firm.

There is no 'glamour' for working in MBB.Here's the test:Pick a hotty in the high street. Tell her you work for MBB. Watch her reaction: "Who are they?" Now tell her you're a firefighter. Then watch the reaction.The same applies to industry, too. Many people don't have the faintest clue who MBB are, let alone their supposed pedigree. And of those who do know... well, they usually know the truth.

Mars A Day & Mr CoolThanks a lot for your insight. I agree that if I stay in my current role, there is a high chance that my career will progress at a decent enough pace, without having the need for MBB on my CV.I would compare this decision with, for example, doing an top MBA: (i) financially it would make little sense (I doubt my salary would increase post-MBA more than it would if I continue working for those 2 years); (ii) I would end up working more than I am working now (or at least that’s my perception about how time-consuming top MBA programmes are); and (iii) it would unlikely teach me anything I could learn on-the-job or taking a short executive course.Yet I would do it for the experience and the credentials. This would also be two of the main reasons why I would join MBB now.There is also an element of “challenge” that I am missing, as you correctly argued Mars. I want to excel in something different and MBB indeed looks to be the highest hurdle around. Perhaps you both are right and I am only trying to follow a text-book career track (MBB + Top MBA= C-level post) and should instead focus on keep doing what I am doing now.To the previous poster, let me add that I work in the healthcare industry.Also, Dave, I agree that most people do not really know any of the MBB firms. In fact, Accenture or Deloitte, for example, probably have a better brand-recognition. But the fact that a company is not known by your average Joe doesn’t mean that is not prestigious. You probably go and ask a random guy if they know the Blackstone Group and would most likely say no, which doesn’t mean that this PE firm isn’t prestigious. Thanks to all,Frank

Actually there is a big difference between MBB and Blackstone Group. Your average Joe would understand that Blackstone Group is very prestigious. He would see your 8 bed house, your holiday home in the Bahamas, your Bentley Turbo and your 60ft yacht, and would understand that clearly you have a prestigious career and work for a good employer.Whereas try explaining why MBB is so prestigious to someone who sees your 3 bed semi-detached house (if not a small city flat) and your 3 series BMW (if you even have a car, that is).As the Blackstone guy goes to work in his chauffeur-driven Jag, people will think he has a prestigious career. The MBB'er on the 6am Ryanair to Hamburg, the 7.10am second class train to Manchester, using black cabs and the London underground, however, will blend in perfectly with all the other plebs who do regular 9-5 jobs. Except they will have some energy for life left, whereas the MBB'er will have bloodshot eyes and look like he desperately needs a vacation.

Dave,Fair enough point. But I see that you measure prestige (mostly) in terms of money.College professors or judges have prestigious jobs but (most of them) cannot afford what a PE employee can. To me, prestige covers other aspects beyond salaries. I had a friend who was a bad student, didn’t go to college and was a very successful plumber during the real estate boom. He did make an awful lot of money but none of us regarded his job as prestigious.Perhaps it is my perception, but MBB does indeed carry a certain respect in and out of the MC industry. But I don’t deny that there is an element of truth on what you say.Thanks,Frank

Hold on, I wasn't saying that prestige is measured in money only. My first comment for instance was comparing the job of a firefighter to that of an MC (although, on reflection, there's probably no so much between it money-wise these days as MC pays so badly on an hourly rate basis).Basically there's no glamour or prestige in my opinion in working for a job for an employer that has low name recognition outside of its own little introverted clique, pays little (and even less on an hourly rate basis), and works you like a dog.

Frank - firstly well done for testing their resolve. At least now you have two clear alternatives to consider rather than the concern of "am I underselling myself?"If I think back to my time in strategy consulting, the reasons people were there were invariably:<b>1) To accelerate their career path</b> - this one I think we can knock on the head pretty quickly. For lots of people, doing a few years in MBB consulting will help them get to where they want to be later in life faster than if they&apos;d gone straight into industry from the outset. But as you&apos;ll see from the other posts here, having achieved what you&apos;ve achieved within a couple of years of finishing at Uni you do not stand to benefit in this way at all.The only way MBB consulting will benefit your career will be if you make it to Partner and therefore gain financially over what you might have achieved in industry. But only a few percent of those who start out in consulting ever make it to Partner - as the ability and sacrifice required means most MBBs will simply never see it through to Partner (even if they thought they would at the outset). At any level below this you are likely to do just as well financially by remaining on a fast-track career path in industry rather than the equivalent track you&apos;d be on in consulting.<b>2) To gain exposure to a variety of industries</b> - Lots of consultants early on in their careers simply don&apos;t know which industry they want to be in long term. Going into consulting gives them scope to keep their options open and gain exposure to a variety of industries. This could be true of you too, but if I were you and this were my reason for choosing consulting then I&apos;d strongly favour going to do my MBA as quickly as possible. At a top business school you&apos;ll be immersed in case studies - and be networking with people - from all different industries, so this will serve just as well as a stint in consulting for reaching the right long term conclusion.<b>3) For the learning experience</b> - I would argue that you&apos;ll have greater responsibilities and develop a broader range of skills within an MBB firm than within industry. You&apos;ll probably find you are exposed to a broader range of business issues than if you stayed put in industry. So from a personal growth point of view you might have a case that MBB consulting is the better option - but that&apos;s putting a high price on personal growth that you may well come to regret.If you have aspirations of setting up your own business then this last reason might be a good one, as you&apos;re most likely to benefit from this investment in yourself if you actually go on to be your own boss and see the upside from this investment in your skills. This was my personal reason for going into consulting. But in your situation I&apos;d again have to counter that the money you could set aside to launch your own business from continuing to work in industry would be at least as likely to see you fulfil this aspiration as any enhanced skillset (but lack of funds) that you&apos;d get from doing a stint in MBB consulting instead.For most readers I would usually advocate that taking a strategy consulting job is a good career move - but in your case Frank I&apos;m far more wary as your alternative is just so good and I fear you may regret the move in a short space of time were you to take it.All the best with your decision and I hope this has helped.Tony RestellTop-Consultant.com

I think we&apos;re getting close to the key point here.Basically MBB is a good career move, but (in my opinion) rarely a good move for any other reason (such as wanting a life outside of work).

Tony, I’d also challenge the value working at an MBB as preparation for starting your own business (except your own MBB-lookalike consultancy).I would regard a career of any more than 24 months in the consultancy world as the worst possible training for anyone interested in starting their own business!! Consultants and entrepreneurs are like chalk and cheese. If you want to run a business, go work for a competitor of the business you want to launch, or failing that a supplier.

Mr Cool - I wasn&apos;t proposing a long stint at an MBB; but a period there would give you exposure to a broader range of business issues and have you working in a more deadline-oriented / high pressure environment than industry - both of which are good preparation.I was with the head of an entrepreneur network in the last weeks and they commented on how many ex-consultants are now successful entrepreneurs. I don&apos;t recall all the examples given, but the Bain guys who started Innocent Drinks / Innocent Smoothies were one and Cobra Beer I think was founded by ex-KPMG guy, Lastminute.com were ex-Spectrum Strategy Consultants, etc...Tony RestellTop-Consultant.com

"I would regard a career of any more than 24 months in the consultancy world as the worst possible training for anyone interested in starting their own business!! Consultants and entrepreneurs are like chalk and cheese."For once Mr. Cool, I have to disagree with you - I can think of plenty of counterexamples to your assertion. A small but significant proportion of my fomer colleagues have started their own businesses, both successful and otherwise.I&apos;d be willing to make a small wage that a) the small proportion of entrepreneurs, and b) the proportion that make good, are both higher than the average.I guess the question I&apos;m left with is; why do you think this is the case?EC

Frank,Just to back-up the original point I made, the advice being given here by Tony and the guys is exactly the sort of thing I&apos;m hearing from people I am speaking to inside the consulting firms I am targeting. Granted, I am not looking at MBB so the case is less compelling, but all the same, the core message rings true. If you are making such good progress in industry already AND your current employer will help provide yur MBA, then you really have to be 100% sure about what you want out of a stint at MBB.The prestige argument is also aniteresting one. The other careers you metioned (college prof., judge etc.) gain their prestige from the value of what they provide to society. Working for MBB is not the same in the sense that you are still working in a &apos;corporate&apos; environment, working for a company that helps other companies in the pursuit of making more money. Whichever way you look at it, the prestige in this environment is inextricably linked to what you get in return financially. Also, don&apos;t get hung up on how other people in your industry made it to C-level positions. If you are talented and capable (which from your progression so far, certainly sounds like you are) standard routes of promotion won&apos;t apply. I was earning £50k in my early 20&apos;s with nothing more than a couple of average A-levels to my name!Finally, to all posters, thanks for a great thread.

Tony/Evil Consultant,Right, that’s it – if people are going to start disagreeing with me, I’m not coming on this forum anymore! ;-)My fragile ego aside, you make some fair points – there are good examples of some star businesses started by ex-consultants. Capital One would be another one where the success of the firm is almost directly attributable to a bunch of consultants working out a better way to do analytics based customer management and believing in it so much that instead of flogging the approach to target clients, they started their own company.I suppose I should be more specific in my dismissal of consultants as entrepreneurs and say that I am considering the rump of the industry rather than the stars. Firstly I think consulting attracts people who are very status conscious and secondly I think the industry is very good at getting people financially “comfortably off”, to the point that many people find it difficult to cast off both the status of their profession (at least amongst their peers and their own ego) and their middle class trappings, in order to go start at the bottom again.To things may have changed this. One was the dot-com bubble, where so many start ups were (at least temporarily) successful, that being paid 10K a year to be the CTO of rabbit-hutches.com actually had more status than staying in consultancy. The second influence may be the recent economy, where many people are thrown by redundancy and find that starting their own firm is the only route left open to them.EC – it would be very interesting to see the stats on whether consultants are proportionately more successful than non-consultants in starting their own businesses. If we can think of a way to measure it, I might be willing to take that bet…? I’ve seen quite a few consultants fail in their grand plans back in the dot-com days….

Thank you all for your comments.I appreciate you took the time to express your opinions and your advice has helped me a lot.When I opened this thread I thought I would find a lot of encouragement to join MBB (being a consultants’ forum…), but I was surprised to read some of your responses!I believe, as Dave rightly said, that MBB is a good career move and I am confident that I could be successful at MBB if I were to join them. However, as you all have said, perhaps in my current circumstances, joining MBB (or to keep it simple: M!) is not the best move I could make.I admit that for some strange reason that I cannot quite explain, I am very attracted to this firm and would always wonder what it would be like to work there. But perhaps you are right and now I should rather focus on building up on what I have achieved to date and maybe look for learning opportunities some place else (ideally in a top MBA programme) at a later stage.All the best to all of you,Frank

Frank, If you&apos;re so keen on getting the McK name on your CV (which I feel, contrary to what many people here state, will make you stand out from the rest + you&apos;ll have lifelong access to the McK Alumni network) unless you&apos;re really keen on going back to continental Europe, why don&apos;t you join Mck&apos;s london office?After 1-2 years, they&apos;ll send you to get your MBA, fully sponored, and you&apos;ll be back on the same salary you&apos;re on now, with slightly higher bonus... At the end of the day, you want to weigh up taking a pay cut for 2-3 years to get the McK brand and then start again from where you&apos;d left it vs staying on the same salary now (but not getting the McK brand)

If you think its worth taking a massive pay cut in order to get a world leading brand on your CV, then why not consider McD&apos;s rather than McK?I believe they even have their own university and if you ever wish to start your own enterprise one day, where better to learn than at the number one most profitable franchise in the world?Joking of course, but it does add a perspective

At the end of the day no one would argue about the strength of the MBBB brand, particularly McKinsey. If your main driver is to get the &apos;best&apos; consulting brand name on your CV, then go for it. Just bear in mind that doing so won&apos;t accelerate your career any faster than it seems to be going, nor will it, necessarily pay you more. It seems acquiring a prestigious brand really does cost, one way or another

Curious,I have always felt that the McKinsey name on my CV would make me stand out from the rest. I also think that it could be a useful (and even, with perspective, enjoyable) experience. When I interviewed with them I had access to many employees and even alumni and I felt that they were honest in their responses to my questions. All of them mentioned the long hours and the hard work, but every single one of them also made clear that they didn’t regret being (or having been) at McKinsey. They mentioned many examples of how their experience in the firm had helped them (i.e. network, recognition, etc) and I appreciated the value of those “intangibles”.Reality Check,Obviously, acquiring prestigious brands is far from being free. Any one with a good bran name on a CV (being an investment bank, MBBB or even a good school, such as Harvard or LBS), would admit that it has a cost, both financial and personal.Perhaps the question is to how much each of us is willing to pay!Difficult choice here, as both options have huge pros and cons! But I think I may stay put.Frank.

Hi Frank,DONT EVER SAY "NO THANKS" AND GET NOTHING OUT OF IT!Good luck with your difficult, but nice-to-have dilemma. Can I suggest that if you are edging towards staying put that you have a discussion with your contact at McK in the form of asking their own advice. Make it clear how impressed you’ve been with the firm and their staff. Admit that you’d love to work in such an intelligent and high-achieving environment. Make it clear that the only problem is money, and that while you have no problem with the principle of taking a cut in order to invest for the future, the SIZE of the cut in this instance would simply have too much of an adverse effect on your personal finances. (I’d recommend that you couch it this way – not that you do not WISH to make the investment, but that you CANNOT make the investment; that given your existing financial commitments, the reduction would more or less immediately catapult you into debt. Within months you’d be happy in your work, but unable to pay your bills!).Stress that you understand why McK cannot possibly bring you in at Manager level (where you would then earn enough), but directly ask “assuming I do not join, what would I need to achieve in the next 2-3 years to be reconsidered for hiring but at a higher level, where the financial impact could be less, or at the least, I could prepare for it”.The principle here (and it may be worth articulating this directly as well) is that “at this minute I recognise that I’m more valuable to my employer than I am to McK. What do I do to ensure that my value to McK catches up with my value to other firms”. In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with gently and sub-consciously reminding the hirer, that you’re highly valued by the very people that should be McK clients. Hopefully the hiring director will at the very least mark you down as someone to stay in touch with, and it’s no bad thing to have a direct line of this nature. The “McK network” does not have to be limited to employees and alumni? Of course there is an outside chance that they’ll be so impressed that they’ll close the financial gap enough to make the decision to join them, but the real probability is that you get to keep the door open for another discussion down the road.

Frank - sound advice here from Mr Cool, I second his suggested approach.Tony RestellTop-Consultant.com

Mr Cool,Thanks a lot for your response. I think it is indeed the best approach to take.I am hesitant that joining McKinsey will be the right move now, given my circumstances and what has been said above.However, I want to keep the door open as I am still very young and might reconsider joining them if the opportunity arises at a higher level in the near future. From my exchanges with them, I can tell they value talent and they (especially) value their reputation and brand. During the process I was treated extremely well and I found people to be flexible and helpful. Also, friends of mine who went for interviews and were later rejected, still had a very good impression of the firm, as senior people (even partners after second round interviews), spent time giving them feedback about what went wrong during the interview stage as well as advice of how to improve their chances next time. I am sure they are being “selfish” in a way by doing this, and for this I hope they keep the door somehow open for me.Thanks again and all the best,Frank

Dave wrote: "Actually there is a big difference between MBB and Blackstone Group.Your average Joe would understand that Blackstone Group is very prestigious. He would see your 8 bed house, your holiday home in the Bahamas, your Bentley Turbo and your 60ft yacht, and would understand that clearly you have a prestigious career and work for a good employer.Whereas try explaining why MBB is so prestigious to someone who sees your 3 bed semi-detached house (if not a small city flat) and your 3 series BMW (if you even have a car, that is).As the Blackstone guy goes to work in his chauffeur-driven Jag, people will think he has a prestigious career. The MBB&apos;er on the 6am Ryanair to Hamburg, the 7.10am second class train to Manchester, using black cabs and the London underground, however, will blend in perfectly with all the other plebs who do regular 9-5 jobs. Except they will have some energy for life left, whereas the MBB&apos;er will have bloodshot eyes and look like he desperately needs a vacation."Dave, thank you for this post and for the previous one about telling a girl you&apos;re a McK consultant vs a fireman. This kind of posts make me stop and think.

This has to be one of the most constructive threads on here for some time.

Frank,I&apos;m a late comer to this thread because I generally prefer to read than post, but I empathise with your situation and thought I could help. I&apos;m currently a BA at Mck in London, and honestly think you&apos;d be better off staying where you are and, if you really want to in future, apply in a couple of years as an Associate. The BA experience is great for me as a fresh graduate, but you can easily get the brand name you want in a couple of years while taking a less deep pay cut if you just wait - they&apos;re more willing to negotiate at experienced entry level.I&apos;m thinking about my options when I have to leave for a bit after 2 years, and I would be thrilled to get a job like yours in industry when I do (if industry is the path I choose). And most BAs don&apos;t return, so honestly you&apos;re already where most industry-oriented BAs would love to be in a couple of year&apos;s time. If you want to transition out of your industry then there&apos;s definitely no argument, otherwise stay put and apply in a couple of years with a stronger negotiating position. Hope that helps.

Frank,Looks like you&apos;ve made a decision now and I think definitely the right one. Unless you feel that you&apos;re stagnating where you are now and unable to develop your career, I think that halving your salary to take a relatively junior role at McKinsey would be absolutely the wrong thing to do. I really don&apos;t see what the benefit would be for you, there&apos;s a danger you&apos;d be working much longer hours, for much less pay, doing much less stimulating and interesting work. Obviously I&apos;m not suggesting that there are no opportunities for stimulating and interesting work at McK, but at BA level it may be much less interesting than what you&apos;re doing now in industry.I think that Mr Cool&apos;s advice on 25/11 is excellent. The only thing I&apos;d add is that it&apos;s worth taking the time to thank the people who&apos;ve interviewed you at McK. I&apos;ve just had a very nice handwritten letter from someone who has turned down an offer that we made him. He&apos;s thanked me for the time I took to interview him and explained why he&apos;s chosen to take another position at this time (in this case not for financial reasons). He&apos;s made it clear that he may want to explore opportunities with us again a few years down the line. I&apos;m sorry that he&apos;s turned us down now, but if he gets in touch in two or three years looking for a more senior position, we&apos;ll probably jump at the chance to hire him.

McKinsey BA & Oxbow,Thank you for your comments. You are never late!I think that your input very much signals to me that I am about to make the right decision. Of course, things are not always black or white and there are many other issues (both personal and professional) that I have to take into account, but I am sure this would be of little interest to you.I agree with Mars that this has been a very constructive thread and I appreciate your comments and assistance.I hope that other people can also benefit from the comments you have left here.Kind regards,Frank

So what ultimately did you decide to do? Have you turned down McK or still torn?

- McK wants you now- Your employer is willing to sponsor the MBA- McK hires MBA&apos;s- McK will still hire you post-MBA- a top MBA will give you a similair shine as the McK brand - You will probably earn a lot more at your current employer than at McK

Curious,I still haven&apos;t done it officially, as I have some additional weeks to think it over, but I think I will turn down McKinsey.I know it is now or never for me, as I doubt I will join McKinsey right after my MBA, as if I do so I would probably end up paying the MBA out of my own pocket, which is not an option I am considering right now. I just hope I will not come to regret it some years down the road.Regards,Frank

What makes you think you will pay for the MBA yourself? It is quite common that your post-MBA employer pays for it, especially in strategy consulting. I&apos;d worry about your post MBA salary however, by the sounds of it you already make what is a post-MBA salary at MBB.

Fury, where did you get that idea that post-MBA employers pay for your MBA?I did an MBA in a top school and neither I nor any of my colleagues got more than a paltry bonus from our post-MBA employers, which didn&apos;t cover even a quarter of our MBA expenses!Was this common practice a few years ago or what?

confused,I got about 50% of my fees back as a starting bonus post-MBA (before taking into account my scholarship) which made the whole payback issue more attractive; however I do agree with your point that this is probably rarer than some might think.EC

Sorry, had to stop reading this ridiculous thread at the point when "Frank" said he was earning £75 basic after only 2 years out of uni, in industry. What a load of cr*p! You guys really do talk a load of nonesense on these threads.

*£75K....ridiculous.

£75K! Not bad, not bad at all! You would never earn that much working for MacKenzies!!!! And if u did u would have to work all night and have big MBA debt (£££££s)!!!!

anon, I struggled with understanding and getting past how anyone super-intelligent/successful enough to be making £75K after 2+ years of leaving university will tie his approaching future success so strongly with having Mckinsey on his CV.Like if most successful people have Mckinsey experience, and obsess that without it his or anyone&apos;s future success is heavily dimished. I find it so ridiculous. Such thinking line just does not reflect enough intelligence to work in Mckinsey or be making £75K after 2 years of finishing university.

*obsessing and *diminished

I am not sure it makes much sense for me to keep posting in this thread. First of all, I am surprised that someone doubts what I have said only because it is unusual. Also, I cannot understand why someone would lie in an anonymous forum like this. And, more importantly, what would I gain from doing so? I know that it might be hard to believe that I am earning £75k in industry 2 years out of university. But it has to do with the particularities of my role, my performance and my very specific activities during my years at university. I am not going to disclose more because I would like to remain anonymous in this forum.Big Consultant,I will try not to feel offended by your comment. I am not sure how you can assess my intelligence on the basis of a couple of posts. Perhaps I did come across as someone who is obsessed with having McKinsey’s brand on my CV. That is not the case, I can assure you.I understand that most people would focus on the “salary argument” and think that considering a move in my case would be idiotic. That is pretty much all I have been hearing from friends and family.But I thought that, being so young, I should take other things into account (not only money and a decent track record so far) before making my decision and that’s why I wanted to get some advice from consultants, so that I could understand better what a firm like McKinsey would add to my CV and experience.I get that the general advice is to stay put as McKinsey will not add much value to me under my present circumstances.Frank

It is interesting how Frank&apos;s comments come across as being much more measured and sensible relative to some others, particularly some of the recent ones. Of course, the fact that they are grammatically correct lends some additional weight.Obviously this alone is not a particularly valid indicator of success (lots of people can write and keep calm, although not so much on this forum; many highly successful people cannot), but it all adds up...

I had wondered how long it would take for this discussion to break down into the usual vitriolic, inflammatory and unhelpful stuff that appears on here. Lets skip over it and be glad that this has been a long, thoughtful and hopefully helpful discussion. I&apos;ve enjoyed reading it for one.I hope, Frank, that you&apos;ve found it useful and that you enjoy whatever you go on to do!