[i]“To be honest I think it's a single persons job”“I for one will never step into consultancy again - ever!”“If you actually want a proper work-life balance and want to be able to go home to your actual home at the end of a working day then stay the hell away from consultancy in general.”"I am lacking desire, hunger and drive and generally ‘fed up’ with the consultancy slog and constant sales/promotional campaign/trumpet blowing" "I genuinely don’t have the passion for consulting anymore" "I want more control over my work, I want to ‘bed-into’ an organisation and want a stable base." “I then burnt out (coinciding with the demise of the company - not my fault!), and gave it all up”[/i]*****Guys, apologies for re-posting this comment as a new thread, however I thought this issue warrants a discussion in its own right.Look through other recent threads. I've picked the above quotes out of a handful of posts that were made within [b]the last two days[/b] alone!!!This really is grim, don't you think? These comments have come from experienced former consultants! It confirms, in my own mind at least, that there is a serious problem with consultancy. Back in the day, people would accept these issues because the pay was good. But now, just look at it. Day rates driven through the floor, staff other than the company owners paid more or less the same as they could get in industry - and for what? Job insecurity, brutal and continuous "feedback", up and out, relentless deadlines, clients who expect more than is realistic, under-sold projects, a transient peer group, travel, and basically having to work 4 or 5 jobs at once (multiple projects plus the internal stuff). If you get a nice fat paycheque at the end of each month, it could make it worth it - but often, these days you don't (or at least, not fat enough a paycheque to justify what you have to put up with). Is it any wonder people are leaving? So, any thoughts/suggestions? What can consultancy firms do to retain people? Bearing in mind client demands and the obvious economic constraints and so on.

Work/life balance becomes a bigger issue as people get married, have kids, etc. Burn-out from all the travel and long hours also has an impact after time.I am Head of Consulting for a small firm and am trying to grow our advisory practice. I have lots of very smart consultants who enjoy a bit of travel but "not too much." I get around this by selling a 50/50 onsite-offsite model to clients. This is a harder sell than normal but seems to be becoming more acceptable for some customers.

BEP - thank you for pulling together all these comments and starting this thread.I personally think this in large part comes down to money - not so much what people are paid (though that helps!), but the way in which the consulting industry has allowed its services to become commoditised. Low rates and low profit margins feed into pretty much everything that is wrong with consulting as a career.Imagine for a moment if consultancies had succeeded in making a good portion of their contracts have rewards tied to results (which was talked about a great deal as a way of countering fee erosion a few years ago, but little has come of it).Had this been successfully pushed through by the industry a lot of the problems of consulting would be eradicated:- the political need for long hours and being away from home on client site would be significantly diminished, as consultants would do what's needed to produce results, not simply conform to what's become an industry norm.- bonuses could be tied to actual project outcomes, rather than to the "performance reviews" that cause so much resentment and disappointment. Remuneration would be both higher and perceived to be more equitable.- the general standing of the sector would be far higher; and its ability to win work during a downturn would be far greater. The cut-throat nature of the sector - and the fear of redundancies - would be correspondingly lower.- the continual erosion of expenses policies (that sees consultants staying in ever cheaper accommodation and travelling like a herd of cattle) would not have needed to be so ruthlessly pursued.- the calibre of your peers would be higher and therefore the learning appeal of consulting would be greater; instead of which, more and more people are deterred from pursuing a career in consulting and into other sectors where margins / remuneration have been better protected.I could go on...Of course this is the classic criticism of the consulting industry - that we're far better at assessing and improving others' businesses than we are at looking after our own!I personally view the shift to a greater risk/reward component in consulting contracts as the only viable way to get ourselves out of this downwards spiral. Now which consulting leaders will pick up the baton and run with this??P.S. very commendable approach Charliefleabag and I'm sure you'll attract a lot of candidate interest if the business continues in this vein.Tony RestellFounder, [url]http://www.Top-Consultant.com[/url] and [url]http://www.Social-Hire.com[/url]

BEP - I agree completely with your comments. Ironically and without any logical or reason or forethought, these points are the ones that exactly keep me in Consulting.And perhaps this ties down to human psychology and the nature of those people who stay, drive and thrive in Consulting. Here I'm using my own frame of reference which is Big 4. I mean - taking each of your points:1) Job insecurity - I do not believe a "job for life" is something that exists anywhere now, inside or outside of Consultancy. I do believe that at least in Consultancy you have transparency and some level of control over your own destiny (your contribution is easily assessed quantitatively, performance is transparent, if aggreessive)2) Brutal feedback - Here I believe feedback needs to be brutally honest both ways. I don't believe brutal necessarily means negative - positive feedback should be as quickly and as honestly given. I enjoy the feedback loop in the Big 4 - I would rather know and address a problem that have to "work the floor" to understand what I need to overcome (real or by perception)3) Up or Out - For me this lights a fire underneath me - really. I thrive on the ambition, the politics and the pressure. I do believe this does exist also in any industry worth its salt, its just - again - more transparent in Consulting4) Relentless Deadines - see above5) Clients who expect more. You can have good and bad clients. But you need to learn and apply the skills to deal with these situations6) Under-sold projects. This is a bad point clearly - but here I would suggest some aspect of brand loyalty needs to be built up (and can be built up - I have seen it) to enable some sort of price premium. 7) Transient peer group. Projects are transient by their nature. I enjoy meeting new people and experiencing new cultures / POVs. Keeps me fresh and forever learning. For sure my real friends will never be in Consulting.8) Travel - depends what travel you're doing. Up and down the M6 is not so sexy. Flying to Asia for me still keeps me excited about my job.9) 4-5 jobs at once. Again, the variety, the pressure - it keeps me interested.So the above is not meant to be challenge (nor please do not list a challenge to each item) - but more simply to show that I do believe the people that thrive in Consultancy (Big Consultancy) are (I do grant you) the masochists, the drivers, the ego-centrics - however I still do believe that this industry offers you a variety of work and clients which I think you'd be hard pressed to find elsewhere...4)

Here's another one from another, different consultant:[i]I feel like consulting is a bit of a dead end career for me personally[/i]My worry is that consultancy is alienating a very large number of people who need more stability in their lives. Clearly some people like Arby are full of energy and just thrive in it... but many folk seem to be finding it way too demanding these days. And I don't say that in a whiney sort of way, I mean that it really is just becoming such an exceptionally demanding job lately that perhaps we're seeing talent leave the world of consultancy simply because of real, basic needs such as the ability to see one's family at the weekends?

Come on guys,I think we MCs (or ex MCs) in the room better get off the high horses and join the real world. I found the work environment in an MC not that different from working in an Industry Programme/Project Mangt dept If we assume that the consultants in question are high performers and will be going for similar high performing jobs in Industry, then we can also assume similar pressure in their new jobs;- Nowadays in Industry you are expected to work from multi locations. Workshops in various places, teams dotted around the country / world etc- Your workload can be just as high and take you away from family just as much. You are expected to have the good ol' BB with you at all times etc- I think the real issue is making a difference. Now instead of creating pointless presentations and talking the talk, I am working on programmes that genuinely help the business I am in. Plus there is a lot less sucking up to do. And less politicsHow many times have we seen threads about people being annoyed with non Deliverers getting promotions in an MC!?! I don't know guys, MC work if I'm honest wasn't all that, I got to travel, I got to see a few different big orgs but boy were there a lot of presentations - reports - etc that ultimately ended in the bin. But the MC in question made bucket loads.Just some thoughtsLaters

This whole thread, right as it is in quality and nature of the complaints, might be a bit biased when it comes to their frequency?Sure if you are a happy consultant you don't come and make a song and dance about it here on Top Consultant.My conclusion is that the downers you have mentioned are totally true and (apart from the money) they are the same as ever. But there are a lot of people who do put up with them or are even happy, they just don't materialise on this forum.

BEP I think you misunderstood my comments in the other thread.My particular 'burn-out' was not related to the fact that I was working in consultancy directly. It was due to the fact that I was under a hell of a lot of pressure with the company folding around me and peoples morals and morales going to the wall with it. I had a very had time protecting the people working under me from the essentially malevolent actions of those working 'above' me. There is a way to conduct downsize with integrity, and not everyone in my company subscribed with that view. There are a lot of pros to consultancy, and the pace of work is absorbing, involving, thrilling, and very demanding. There are going to be times in everyones life when 'other elements' (ike raising a family) either suffer or demand an exit from consulting. For me, its all the macho bull that is the problem. There are two types of people that thrive in consulting. 1. The ones that see themselves as somehow superhuman. They validate their own existence to themselves and their peers by making a big deal about how they can take the pace. Ironically, in my experience, they are the ones that are actually creating the pressure for themselves and those around them. These types sometimes stay on in consulting and occasionally become the 'bad' partners to work for, but more often that not the agenda is a 'meteoric rise' of their own consulting career, no matter who gets in their way, then an exit to a 'cushy' job with one of their clients where they can be lazy and rake in money for doing not much. 2. The second type to thrive in consulting are the ones that get off on the nature of the work. The variety of work and the excitement of actually making a difference at their clients is something that really, genuinely, cannot be found outside of big consulting.If we could have less macho bull and more genuine enjoyment in the 'real' work it would slowly, hopefully, change the culture of consulting. Weed out the bad partners and then work your way down the organisation.Rant over.

Agree completely with what you say.On the burnout point, I think it's true that many consultancy firms are coming under intense economic pressure right now - some to the point that they go out of business, others to the point that they plod along as grim places to work with demotivated staff and low day rates. All these pressures invariably lead to staff taking the strain - working longer hours to make up for the low day rates, and so on. So, I don't think your burnout experience was too unique actually... lots of other consultants are going through a similar thing right now.Compare that with the early 80's where you could just turn up at a client's office and immediately get everybody fully billable and the full day rate for doing easy and enjoyable work. I know everybody's under pressure at these times, but in consultancy we seem to be right there at the sharp end, working extra hard and being directly affected by cuts (what's the first thing that gets chopped from a client's budget? their own payroll? the refreshments? "all those overpaid consultants"?) ...

[quote]Here's another one from another, different consultant:[i]I feel like consulting is a bit of a dead end career for me personally[/i]My worry is that consultancy is alienating a very large number of people who need more stability in their lives. Clearly some people like Arby are full of energy and just thrive in it... but many folk seem to be finding it way too demanding these days. And I don't say that in a whiney sort of way, I mean that it really is just becoming such an exceptionally demanding job lately that perhaps we're seeing talent leave the world of consultancy simply because of real, basic needs such as the ability to see one's family at the weekends?[/quote]Hi BEP, I should elaborate on what I meant by this perhaps. Essentially I am used as a jack of all trades, more often body shopping than anything. I am working in a team of 1 (me) and thus stuck in with clients and eventually become part of the furniture. I end up being more respected in the client organisation than I am at my own firm, unless I spend half of my life self-promoting, which I don't.The end result is that I feel like I would have a higher career trajectory by going client side. From a learning perspective, most of what I learn is through my own experience, research etc. rather than from the firm. I struggle to see what consulting has to offer me, outside of working in different organisations. I have already specialised in a particular sector.It is worth noting that I work for a smaller firm and perhaps the issue is the firm and not the industry.Thoughts?

Having just moved from a bulge bracket investment bank to a Big 4 consultancy this is an interesting thread as banks feel that consulting is offering the good grads a career that they cannot. You can no longer earn the serious money that you used to be able to in banking and consulting offers a better work/life balance than IB.. The careers services on big UK and European campuses are telling IBs that consulting is now the career of choice for top business grads..

Weird.I think the work/life balance is pretty illusory if you "only" work 50 hours a week in consulting but don't get home until Thursday night at best, possibly Friday - you might just as well have worked 70 hours. You still wouldn't have been able to do what you wanted, where you wanted, with whom you wanted in the evenings.That said, I have worked very few weekends.

You are right of course.. But perhaps to undergrads it seems more glamorous to be travelling rather than in the same office until 7am?! Unsure as banking tries to downplay the hours with an "it varies" approach. And you are right about the weekends..

Thanks for putting this thread together BEP and to others that have made contributions so far. I'm starting with a Big 4 later in the year and it has furthered my thoughts in some areas and opened my eyes to other issues.Although I have not started the job yet, my somewhat naïve view is that the main thing that is seriously lacking is a motivational pay structure. Am I right in saying that % based performance bonuses (within Big Four/ACN etc not MBB) do not appear until M/SM level? Will I have to wait 5 years for that? The promotional pay increases are hardly spectacular when you put them against other high-performing jobs and London/modern day living costs. IB grads start on about 44k. The rest of the negatives mentioned on this thread I see as 'what I signed up for'. Frankly a lot of jobs in the current environment necessitate working harder for less but the existence of a target/% bonus structure at an earlier stage would motivate me more. I really do not think that MC is that different when you compare similar roles/pressures. Travel maybe?@Noel I too was considering the IB route going towards the markets side rather than IBD/M&A however like you, overall, I see IBs now as truly grim places to work; you really do earn your pound of flesh and nothing is guaranteed re bonus or promotion. Last week´s EU vote on bonus caps is unlikely to work wonders for their environments either. [b]@ everyone else, what about the positives?[/b] (that is before you guys put me off completely and I consider applying to another industry- I am convinced it can't be all that bad!) For example relative to IB, MC to my mind has a lot more variety, less politics, better corporate cultures (at some firms admittedly) and the value an individual adds is more visible/there is more direct involvement in that process (than say markets roles where you are only ever commenting on two directions and not creating anything).

Hi.I am IT consultants.The day-to-day activities of IT consultants are often complex and varied.Work can vary in length depending on the type of firm and the demands of the client but I love to be around people and help organizations to solve issues, create value, maximize growth and improve the business performance of clients and at the same time i enjoy my personal life.

As an ex consultant my view:Why do consulting? Get to see a load of industries and clients. Travel (when an plus), work with some very bright and motivated people, get good training in professional ways of working. Pay is good, the last place I worked at had good bonuses, and the other stuff like healthcare, pension etc were good too.The downsides: Travel (as you get fed up of not having a personal social life during the week), the question about external consultants value, as you go up the chain there is requirement to sell, often not seeing work through to completion, as you get more senior and expensive you tend to need to specialise to justify the fees so lose the breadth of experience.The flip side: Having joined industry I miss the bright and positive colleagues from consulting days and the collegiate atmosphere form a partnership. My overall pay took a drop, but not by as much as I was worried it would (no bonus though). I have only spent a couple of nights away from home per year due to work trips. I have however still had to work late and some weekends, progress up the organisation is glacial so I'll probably look to move to a new organisation to get a pay rise / promotion, and the work is chaotic (if you think your consulting project team is screwed up then be happy it is probably in a better state than most client project teams).Obviously I now become tagged with a particular industry specialism, and can build a network inside the organisation. I've found that I've had to broaden my experience taking on a lot more downstream implementation work than I ever did in consulting. This has pros and cons - good to see the work go live, I get to see the pain with achieving simple things though.If you do jump into industry really make sure you like the team you are joining as it'll be a lot more static than the consulting world.

BEP,You raised a number of pertinent points. I'll try to add some thoughts over the next few days.In this post, I hope to offer some positives, as per Post #14.@Matrix,One of the good things of joining a Big4..... is the ability to do both breadth/depth. To cite an example, you can be broadly involved in an operational excellence engagement, then go down to the bits and bytes (lean, SS, etc.). Another example, you can do a automotive or IT project, using frameworks and best practice.The fun part is when you are able to actually effect improvements. How can a company (especially in IT) gain a competitive edge if it's using best practices that are used by others? This is where you can add value, gain visibility, recognition, etc. By coming up with your strategies to unlock latent top line, own agile frameworks that can adapt and give a competitive edge, new business models that create a whole new industry category, etc. This was the reason I went into consulting, as opposed to internal consulting within a company. But it requires you to have solid understanding of the industry in question. That and the basics a role at a Big4 offers.Decided to call it a day (and week!) at noon today. Went for lunch with the client Was offered a job :) These are the things that keep me going. It sort of "validates" me. Of course there are negatives, like knowing you'll never make partner where you are, despite being good. The travelling can also take its toll, e.g. going on a 6-month engagement, thinking you'll have time to fit in some sight-seeing, but unable to do so 'cos you were terribly busy all the time (as a result of the project being oversold).

Big Pro with consulting - you typically get a payrise/ promotion every two years. So it's a great way of getting your pay up in your 20s and then moving into industry at a certain level. Obviously once you've hit manager/ SM level that no longer holds true, plus the long hours etc likely to bother you more @Tony - unless there's a transaction involved somewhere it's incredibly hard to tie consultancy to any sort of success based metrics ... I am sorry to say that in a lot of cases there would be almost no impact to measure anyway even if you could! Perhaps this explains part of the problem ... !

@ Camster, thanks for your contributions re Big Four and congrats on the new job, I hope it works out for you!Thanks also daryltabb and rollercoaster.Anyone kindly care to expand on typical bonus structures and if such such success-based metrics exists as Tony has suggested but alexandermeerkat has questioned? For example how do these differ between pure strategy houses vs. Big Four / Accenture? How do they vary in between the Big Four alone?Don't know and gotta ask- won't be working purely for the love!

I know this thread is a bit dated but hopefully some of you will be able to answer the following question;What is the single event over the past decade that changed consultancy service delivery?Was it the 2007-8 fiscal downturn?Was it the advent of social media and its effect? Was it clients requiring tangible ROI? as opposed to strategy delivery?Would be grateful for a reply as it is part of my preliminary research for a Master's dissertation on consultancy innovation and change.Regards,Viv

Why don't you give us your hypothesis?

Viv,I graduated back in the late 80's so have been involved in management consultancy one way or another (and from various perspectives/roles) for 25 years. I think it would be wrong to think a) that any single recent event has changed the world of management consultancy, or indeed b) that there has been a specific change.ALL of what is described above has occurred multiple times in cycles over the 25 years that I've experienced. There are certain changes that have occurred in the world - proliferation of technology in all aspects of life and work, an increasingly international workforce and removal of labour controls across borders, etc - but these have impacted ALL industries, not just MC.The MC industry has and always will attract a certain type of person - academically smart and prone to just a little bit too much egotistical self centredness, often derived from an inherent lack of true self worth which they compensate for by being massively competitive.As a consequence, changes in the worked in general are perceived as being changes in the world of MC - they are after all at the centre of the universe!

at a point in my life when I like to do things other than work and see people other than colleagues, the main problem for me is the working hours. as in some industries there is frankly little skills difference between consultants and client staff, consultancy has become a working hours arbitrage play for many clients - have your own staff or a contractor doing 9 hours a day or pay a bit more and get a consultant doing 14 (and leave the whip-cracking which makes that happen to the consulting salesman, whoops, 'engagement lead').

yes, on a per-hour rate, the consultants often earn less in fact

Hi, everyone. I'm new here. After reading this thread, it made me wonder if consulting is something I should go for. It seems that the work schedule takes away my right to get a life! I've also read [url]http://www.consultingfact.com/blog/management-consulting-work-life-balance/[/url] and it made me doubt if this industry is truly for me. I've always dreamed of breaking into Bain or McKinsey and I've sent applications to several firms, but the more I read about consulting (for preparation), the more I think of looking for another job.

Life?What is this thing called a life to which refer and where do I buy one?

Just hang out around Elephant and Castle on a Saturday night and look for a guy in a grey trenchcoat who goes by the name of Mr Cool... ;)