I have been offered a C4 grade role in their DCT practice (CG Consulting) and I am wondering if I should take them seriously. Let me explain whyI recently worked with IBM DCT practice and all these guys do is good old Systems Integration and CRM consulting in the name of Digital Channel Transformation which going by their Marketing Pitch is about Digital MArketing Transformation, Strategy, Analytics, Social Media etc. Traditionally things that have been outside the niche of IT service companies like CG, IBM, Accenture etc.The problem is that because their Sales Teams are not able to create a decent pipeline in these areas, the consultants seem to have to taken on irrelevant roles outside of their core domain just to keep up their utilization targets. At least that is the way IBM worksMy question is how is CG's DCT practice doing? They seem to be on a huge recruitment drive so intutively they should have a decent pipeline to absorb new hires? Or are these opportunistic hires because partners have a recruitment window???Also, I have 13 yrs. experience -in the same field (Digital Analytics) should I settle for C4 or push for C5? What base salary should I settle for?Dino

I will speak about Paris' Digital Transformation (DT) practice.They developped DT offers last year and now Capgemini puts most of its efforts to develop this practice and to gain revenue with these new offers. Their customers are now expecting more than Business / Techno Transfo Consulting, which are the two main pillars of Cap's Consulting services.If the HR rules are the same as in France, salary will be aligned to you peers at the same position so you need to ask for the package of the position you are looking for.

Push for C5, promotions and pay rises are scarce and will be for many years, and it doesn't matter what practice you join or glossy brochure you read, they will resource you on to what ever roles need filling at the time. Your experiences at IBM will be very similar at CG, but CG are probably more under the cosh.

But what is a top-of-the-line package (base + allowances + bonus) for C4 grade? I am interested in UK numbers

Also, any thoughts on whether CapGemini C4 equates roughly to Band 9 in IBM GBS and Senior Manager in ACN?

Well I had the pleasure of having an initial telephone interview for their Marketing Sales and Service Practice (Thats what Cap calls it and not Digital Channel Transformation as some other SIs do) for which CapG has currently advertised on a number of job boards My background is in Digital/Direct Marketing so I was naturally intrigued by the prospect joining a World Class Management Consultancy-easily the best in Europe and which attracts the whos who of Digital/Interactive Marketing brains in the industryThe interview was initially scheduled for 40 mins but lasted less than 10 (I was gutted for that) when the Interviewer (a Managing Consultant with their Marketing Consulting Stream) realized that while I knew a thing or two about Marketing (Branding Strategy, Customer Segmentation, Analytics, Customer Insights, Optimization, Marketing Communications etc. - which by the way are clearly marked as existing propositions in their Job Advert) that I totally lacked competencies in Web Production, eCommerce Development, Mobile Application Design and Marketing on the Cloud (etc.)Not to loose heart with this initial failure though, I am sure that I have the skills to join a world class Management Consulting Practice and was thinking of re-applying at some point. Does anyone on here know how long to wait before they will reconsider my job application? Any existing CapG Consulting guys on here?

It all depends on what the feedback was. I would say if you had constructive feedback about what was missing and you addressed that then you can apply for the role again once you have gained the experience. There are a number of roles advertised now and you can apply for a different role straight away.The Digital Transformation area is split between a number of practices in Capgemini Consulting and therefore you can sit in either team depending on what role you have applied for, hence the interviewer being from one of those practices. How was the recruitment process for the role you applied for?

1) They have not advertised for any specific role - their ad can be seen on top-consultant forum. All I know was that the interviewer did not give any impression of being conversant with business focused Marketing but more around design build of customer experience (i.e. web site design, ecommerce, package implementation kind of work)2) There is no such thing as a 'Digital Transformation Practice' in Cap. There is the Marketing, Sales and Service practice which I suppose offers the Digital Transformation offering. This is again, old school CRM consulting by big SIs where the CRM Solutions offering is vertically divided into these three functional areas. My questions were around specifics-what EXACTLY do you guys do WITHIN Marketing and within that around DIGITAL Marketing- as that is what their Job Advert is about - No convincing answer3) The subtle comment I managed to get out of the interviewer was that the MSS practice is NOT the same as Strategy and Transformation ! This in all probability means that the MSS practice is more of a Design Service (with the Technology Services group providing the BUILD capability) and that there would be a lot of tussle between MSS and SnT about who does the strategic work within Marketing Services4) In terms of the recruitment process-well I was not convinced that the Interviewer had the skills to interview a Senior Profile, that my CV was not screened properly and that the recruitment team was simply putting out ads without really understanding the limitations of IT Consulting and hence probably over-pitching their 'Management Consulting' focus in their AdsIn any case, I hope that they streamline their process in future and soon publish meaningful roles in Digital Marketing that they can then have a meaningful conversation about.

I have had a look at the website and there are a number of roles - looks like the role on TC is a generic one but it takes you through to a site with about 4-5 different roles on each in different areas and quite specific about what they are looking for.

The site has two postings for the MSS Service Line that somehow point to the same link (another piece of sloppy stuff)https://careers.uk.capgemini.com/fe/tpl_CapgeminiUK01.asp?newms=jj&id=70500&aid=12714It CLEARLY outlines Customer Strategy/Analytics as separate areas and gives NO mention of Systems Implementation here (wtf !!)My CV clearly showed a SPECIALIST experience of 13 yrs. in both these areas - why on earth would then they depute a junior customer experience consultant (I say junior because I checked her profile on linkedin and he total consulting experience was significantly less than mine)to interview me?? I am wondering if this would still happen if they had screened my CV properly and not assumed my intent and intelligence !

I used to work for MSS and they tend to be heavily design and build focused. 'Customer Strategy' kind of projects are rare for the entire Cap Gemini Consulting and IF they ever get that kind of work(Customer Segmentation-NOT persona modeling and user journeys etc. Contact Optimization, Event Driven Marketing Strategy etc.) it usually goes to the Strategy and Transformation Team within Consulting and NOT to Marketing Sales and ServiceBut they @dino - why are you winging? It is no open secret (and you seem to know this yourself from your experience with IBM) that Cap uses 'Management Consulting' facade to make it easier to sell non-coding type of IT services (and that is the story with all other SIs)-Why not just ignore them and their ads and move on?

You have been looking at the MSS jobs and not the Digital jobs. Look at the attached link and you will see exactly what they are looking for. http://www.uk.capgemini.com/capgemini-careers/experienced-hires/consulting/digital-transformation/how-to-apply/Maybe if you had done a search on google and done some research on Capgemini you would have come across this.

eh? what are you on about?I applied for the MSS job and not the Digital Transformation Roles - have a read through the above threads again in case you have missed the point of this thread

Maybe if Cap pays more attention to CV screening (like Accenture or Deloitte) and does not over sell to potential candidates, we wouldnt be having this thread in the first place

Sorry dinoisout - I thought you had applied for the Digital Transformation roles because in your original thread you put "I have been offered a C4 grade role in their DCT practice (CG Consulting) and I am wondering if I should take them seriously".We have obviously got crossed wires.Capgemini Consulting seem to have a really solid process to me - it looks like you were the one that was confused about what role you were applying for.

Ok get ready for some piece of wisdom @cosmosthe MSS practice in Cap is modeled along the lines of old school CRM consulting and in any big SI, CRM is divided into three main areas - Marketing, Sales and Service-these are the vertical service lines.'DCT' is a horizontal and cuts across Marketing, Sales and Service. When I said I applied for DCT, I meant, it was for DCT but for the Marketing Pillar-make sense?Apparently Cap's recruitment process is so solid that they apparently do web design as part of DCT within the Marketing function and depute part-time consultants that lack the basic skills to screen a cv prior to interviewing - hows that for wires crossed!

also cosmo - just so you know the consultant who came for the telephone interview herself mentioned that I would be going to the MSS practice so its not a confusion between DCT and MSS like you have brought about by sticking in a link to the DCT job - it is genuinely a case of Cap screwing up !

Are you saying that Cap does Digital MArketing consulting????? Would you know what specific propositions they have in that space? I really wonder what percentage of their current (or mid term) pipeline is in any of these areas!

Looks like Capgemini were correct on their rejection.If you had that attitude in the interview its not the interviewers fault you were rejected

Hi Anon1Capgemini seem to be pushing "Digital Transformation" globally. Have a look at the link that I posted further up the stream and also look on the new Capgemini Consulting webiste launched a couple of weeks a go for more information.

ok so now you can not talk with reason so you get personal eh. maybe you are one of those me-too style handyman consultants that seem galore in Cap. :) not even tier 3 I should say!

yes, Cap is building up a Global team of third rate IT staff -hoping that it could sell these bodies to credible clients in business focused consulting - in other words making a muppet of itself putting up misinformed recruitment adscosmo-are you a consultant by any chance? I mean a 'Management Consultant' with Cap or something?

I think we need to understand the fundamental issue here with these pseudo-business consultancies.For any consultancy like IBM, Cap, Accenture etc.that has its roots in IT, the urge to up-sell into slightly more business oriented areas is obviously quite tempting. Unfortunately though, you can not just hoard an army of consultants on such engagements and in any case, it is rare for businesses to be looking outside of the pure play management consultancy world when attempting to solve strategic business problems. The leftover projects (which are not strategic enough for the Mckinseys and BAZ of the world but which are still a bit of a 'catch' for IT Management Consultancies) tend to be up for grabs and yes, it is entirely plausible that Cap G Consulting runs some of these (By the way, I looked at their 'NEW' website and there is a video of one of their Principals who talks about what they do within DCT- MUST watch!)But even such leftover projects are few and far between which means that any Partner who manages a book has to look for other ways to keep his/her consultants engaged. Given that strategy projects are rare, where does a consultant get deployed? Threads galore on this forum about how SIs like Cap literally force their consultants to 'keep busy' regardless of skills match. I suspect that Digital Transformation Practice which Cap is trumpeting about is no different. They may have got a few projects that are slightly more business consulting focused than others but because they lack the brand (and that is unlikely to change unless they give up their cash cow accounts like HMRC etc. - which they will never do), anyone who joins them has to be prepared to be 'flexible'. I think we all know what that means !So here is my 2p advise to anyone thinking of joining Cap/IBM/Infosys/TCS/Accenture and etc. Do not be deluded about what kind of work you will be handling. Use your brain and less the powerpoints and marketing collateral touted by company recruiters at induction sessions, assessment centers and advertising in general. If you do not like an association with IT (Services) then avoid them like plague. But if you are happy to be an IT Management Consultant then look for the 'lesser evil'. And in that my money goes to Accenture/Deloitte - At least as of now. Cap might replace these sometime in future. All to their own though.